CN NEEDS To Follow Starz's Example

[Jeff Harris]

Has anybody seen the revamped Starz Entertainment Networks this week? Liberty Media, Starz's owners, has revamped all of their networks visually and physically, eliminated some networks, combined two similar networks, and added two new networks. Starz/Encore has something for everybody, and in a perfect world, Cartoon Network would have a serious relaunch of their two networks and launch two new networks on the same day.

They just need four good networks: Cartoon Network, CN Classics, CNX, and CN Comedy.

- Cartoon Network: You're currently looking at it. Despite all the criticism, Cartoon Network is perfect just the way it is and it will be even more perfect come the fall when the preschool-oriented Tickle U is on the air. Tickle U in the morning, Miguzi in the late afternoons, original programming in primetime, Toonami on Saturday nights, and Adult Swim every night except Friday. Cartoon Network is almost perfect right now.

- Cartoon Network Classics (formerly Boomerang): By tying the classic cartoon channel closer to CN with a new name, the former Boomerang is slowly becoming the network it should have been five years ago today. With a combined library of theatrical and television shorts and television programming, as well as anthologies like Toonheads and The Tex Avery Show, CN Classics is the only network dedicated the the cartoons of days gone by.

- Cartoon Network X: With a heavy action/anime lineup as well as cutting edge shows and animated movies aimed towards the "key" demo of 18-35 year olds, CNX is the ultimate destination for the internet generation. And let Williams Street manage every part of this network since this is the perfect marriage of all the blocks they created.

- Cartoon Network Comedy: A perfect mix of classic theatrical shorts, Cartoon Network originals, and adult-oriented shorts and shows from all over the globe, CN Comedy would go for laughs 24/7 and be the only place suitable for the original cycle of Cartoon Network originals, including Space Ghost Coast 2 Coast.

That's all they need. Four good Cartoon Networks, including the traditional Cartoon Network and Boomerang (CN Classics). It would be perfect (and a moratorium [ban] on dream schedules/lineups based on these network ideas begins . . . now). Time Warner needs to be more cordial with their Turner networks and Cartoon Network in particular, and really convince cable operators to pick up the CN channels. Afterall, their biggest competitor Nickelodeon has managed to put out five different spinoff networks in addition to Nickelodeon/Nick At Nite, so why won't Time Warner do likewise for Cartoon Network? It's ridiculous. Those four networks would be perfect.

[Fan of Sponge]

You know if they introduce a new spin-off channel, I wouldn't remove the blocks and or shows until a large percentage of the oringnal channel's subscribers get it. It is just like putting HDTV on line and then wait until a large number get it. I still don't think that over half of Cartoon Network's subscribers get Boomerang.

[CookieS]

Well considering Adult Swim now gets its own ratings via Neilson (and thus separate advertising allotments), would it be that insane to see Adult Swim spin-off into its own network one day?

[j32885]

Excellent idea Jeff, someone should proposed this to Turner Broadcasting right away, and try to make this a reality. Maybe we could try a letter writing campaign or something.

Here's what the CN channels will formats they will be avilable in:

Cartoon Network - Analog Cable, Digital Cable, & Satellite

Cartoon Network Classic - Analog Cable, Digital Cable, & Satellite

Cartoon Network X - Digital Cable & Satellite

Cartoon Network Comedy - Digital Cable, & Satellite

[Jeff Harris]

Starz is a premium network in most areas. I don't see how anything they do could be considered relevent in the field of basic cable.Starz is a premium network, but they are relevant to all of cable. They were the first to bring out numerous spinoff networks of their initial channels Encore and Starz. They created Encore Action, Mystery, Westerns, Love Stories (now Encore Love), WAM, and True Stories (now Encore Drama) and created STARZ Theater (relaunched as Starz Edge), Cinema, Black STARZ (relaunched as Starz InBlack), Family, and Kids (both of which merged into Starz Kids and Family making way for a new network, Starz Comedy). Starz did spinoff channels before spinoff channels were in vogue. Discovery followed with Animal Planet, Discovery Kids, Wings (now The Military Channel), Science (now The Science Channel), Home and Living (now Discovery Home), and Civilization (now Discovery/Times Channel). Then Nickelodeon, which launched The Suite along with MTV, creating Noggin/The N, Nick Too (which relaunched as Nicktoons TV), Nickelodeon Games and Sports.

I certainly think Discovery and Nickelodeon are relevant to basic cable.

If Cartoon Network X existed, Toonami and Adult Swim would be removed from regular Cartoon Network just as they were in the UK, and just as Boomerang was in the US.And Miguzi, let's not forget Miguzi.

And if CN Comedy was launched, Cartoon Cartoon Fridays and all the old Cartoon Network originals would be removed from regular Cartoon Network.

I think Time Warner and Cartoon Network should squash the practice of removing something that'll be on another channel. I mean, you look at Nicktoons and Noggin, and you'll see that they both share a huge bulk of their programming with Nickelodeon. Spongebob Squarepants, Fairly Oddparents, Rugrats, Hey Arnold, Wild Thornberrys, CatDog, Jimmy Neutron, Rocket Power, ChalkZone, and a few others are on both Nick and Nicktoons. Dora The Explorer and Blue's Clues are on Noggin and Nick. And all of Nick Jr.'s shows air on CBS. And Dora The Explorer and Rugrats both come on Telemundo. Power Rangers, Shinzo, Super Monkey Action Force Hyper Team Go!, Spider-Man, X-Men, Battle B-Daman, W.I.T.C.H., Beyblade, Dragon Booster, and Digimon come on both Toon Disney and ABC Family Channel. The Proud Family, Recess, House of Mouse, and Kim Possible come on both Toon Disney and Disney Channel. The entire ABC Kids lineup is culled from Disney Channel and ABC Family Channel.

And none of them is cancelled from their established networks. At least with Cartoon Network, they have numerous shows in their and Warner Bros.' collective libraries (for the record, they're family and should be able to utilize the entire library as needed) and enough resources to create new shows and acquire outside programming. It can be done, and Nickelodeon and Disney has proven this for years.

And considering that it's taken years for Boomerang to get any kind of substantial subscriber base and still people complain that they don't get it in their house, I don't see how Time Warner can just up and do any of this.Five years after the launch of Boomerang, Cartoon Network is just NOW realizing the potential of what that network can offer. After four and 3/4 years of being a network that aired the same eight-hour lineup three times a day, Boomerang is now a linear, more cable-friendly network. Now, if they became a commercial network like Toon Disney and soon Nicktoons, perhaps even more cable outlets will want to acquire the network. Afterall, the whole business of television isn't to provide programming . . . it's to sell advertising space. That's where the real money is. If Boomerang became an ad-supported network like Cartoon Network, perhaps more cable operators would become attracted to it.

Time Warner can do any damned thing they want to, but they won't. Part of it is hesitation to try anything new and part of it is because they didn't have funds to do something like that. Now that the whole company is feeling more comfortable with itself, perhaps it's time to try something new and different with a little more confidence.

[Mugen]

Starz is a premium network, but they are relevant to all of cable. They were the first to bring out numerous spinoff networks of their initial channels Encore and Starz. They created Encore Action, Mystery, Westerns, Love Stories (now Encore Love), WAM, and True Stories (now Encore Drama) and created STARZ Theater (relaunched as Starz Edge), Cinema, Black STARZ (relaunched as Starz InBlack), Family, and Kids (both of which merged into Starz Kids and Family making way for a new network, Starz Comedy). Starz did spinoff channels before spinoff channels were in vogue. Discovery followed with Animal Planet, Discovery Kids, Wings (now The Military Channel), Science (now The Science Channel), Home and Living (now Discovery Home), and Civilization (now Discovery/Times Channel). Then Nickelodeon, which launched The Suite along with MTV, creating Noggin/The N, Nick Too (which relaunched as Nicktoons TV), Nickelodeon Games and Sports.


Also, MTV seems to have endless spinoffs like MTV2, MTV Hits, MTV Espanol, etc. Isn't Viacom launching a gay-themed channel later this year?

[Natey]

Excellent idea Jeff, someone should proposed this to Turner Broadcasting right away, and try to make this a reality. Maybe we could try a letter writing campaign or something.

Here's what the CN channels will formats they will be avilable in:

Cartoon Network - Analog Cable, Digital Cable, & Satellite

Cartoon Network Classic - Analog Cable, Digital Cable, & Satellite

Cartoon Network X - Digital Cable & Satellite

Cartoon Network Comedy - Digital Cable, & Satellite
that would be awsome. i would really like the idea of CN comedy

[Jeff Harris]

Also, MTV seems to have endless spinoffs like MTV2, MTV Hits, MTV Espanol, etc. Isn't Viacom launching a gay-themed channel later this year?Yup. LOGO is going to arrive soon joining the likes of MTV, MTV 2 (which relaunched on Super Bowl Sunday back in February with fewer music-oriented shows and more reality crud), MTV Hits, MTV Latin, MTV X (a rock-oriented network . . . yes, it exists), VH1 (which rarely shows video hits and has morphed into a pop culture channel), VH1 Classic, VH1 Soul, VH1 Gospel, VH1 Mega Hits (which is strangely identical to MTV Hits . . . odd), and VH1 Country and the Nickelodeon networks in The Suite.

[Carlos]

Has anybody seen the revamped Starz Entertainment Networks this week? Liberty Media, Starz's owners, has revamped all of their networks visually and physically, eliminated some networks, combined two similar networks, and added two new networks. Starz/Encore has something for everybody, and in a perfect world, Cartoon Network would have a serious relaunch of their two networks and launch two new networks on the same day.


That's interesting, but I think the most CN will ever in spinoff networks is two, maybe three.

Cartoon Network- Continues to show originals on the network and still has Miguzi, Toonami, Adult Swim, and Fridays. The early part of the network targets preschoolers with Tickle U, Miguzi in the afternoons, primetime cartoons, and Adult Swim at night. Toonami would still be on Saturdays, with a Midnight Run on Friday nights/early Saturday morning.

Boomerang- The network will still show classic cartoons 24 hours a day. Like Nicktoons TV, it will open itself up to advertisers and have ads during the day. Also, the network would change demographics. Instead of targeting 2-11 year olds, it would target 25-54 year olds. It would become to TV Land of animation.

Cartoon Cartoon TV- Like Nicktoons TV, it would be a network that airs CN originals, WBA originals, third-party shows, and maybe some anime. Also, it would air shows that otherwise have no room or place on CN. This could be the place where the new World Premiere Cartoons could air at.

Tickle U/Pogo- Well, this is a dream, but it would be similar to Noggin/The N. From 6 A.M.-6 P.M., it would air preschool shows like Krypto the Superdog, Baby Looney Tunes, Sitting Ducks, etc. Some classic shows can air here, such as Tom and Jerry. From 6 P.M.- 6 A.M., the block Pogo would air. Unlike the channel that shares the same name in India, this block would target 12-17 and 12-24 year olds and air shows that wouldn't be right for kids, but maybe too juvenile to adults. Shows like Kenshin, Case Closed could air here. Also, this block would air live action shows as well.

These are just my ideas.:)

[Wanted]

Well, you have these three spinoffs: "CN Classics, CNX, and CN Comedy."

What do you do with the original? You deconstruct it and change it into one of the former. There's no point of having four channels, and one being the "sampler channel" for the other three. Just have one or two networks that can supply the viewers with what they want.

[Wanted]

Tickle U/Pogo- Well, this is a dream, but it would be similar to Noggin/The N. From 6 A.M.-6 P.M., it would air preschool shows like Krypto the Superdog, Baby Looney Tunes, Sitting Ducks, etc. Some classic shows can air here, such as Tom and Jerry. From 6 P.M.- 6 A.M., the block Pogo would air. Unlike the channel that shares the same name in India, this block would target 12-17 and 12-24 year olds and air shows that wouldn't be right for kids, but maybe too juvenile to adults. Shows like Kenshin, Case Closed could air here. Also, this block would air live action shows as well.Yeah, I brought that idea over from India (check the Toonami forum). And people are listening.

Anyhow, my idea of Pogo is a part-time liveaction, part time animation channel oriented toward families. Check out http://www.pogo.tv/.

[NozeNuggets]

Hey, Jeff. Nick Too is still on the air, but it's the west coast feed on digital channels!

[livingfruitvirus]

That's what we need. More bandwidth wasted by more "excess shows" channels.

[Demonic Raven]

Williams Street needs their own channel. Miguzi + Toonami + Adult Swim programming into one channel. I always thought it was a good idea, they all have the potential to become something bigger than just some blocks on CN, and only AS has taken (small) steps toward that.

Now they would just need a snappy name. Migunami Swim? Adult Toonuzi? Aduzi Swimami!? ;)

Then CN could also make a spin-off for their flagship Cartoon Cartoons in the same vein as Nicktoons TV. Boomerang....they can keep it as long as they improve on it a little bit.

[Sketch]

Honestly if nothing else... I see no reason to include Miguzi. It's a vital part of CN and the action block for 6-11. Toonami being on once a week and with most of its shows being once a week could air stuff on another network either as Toonami or not as a block at all and Adult Swim has several shows they don't air.

Hmm... four channels does seem a bit much.

So I say do this instead...

CN stays as is, CNX is the action channel and it includes some classics and CNC is the comedy channel and it includes some classics. It's painfully apparent by Boomerang's situation that a classic animation channel isn't any easy sell.

CN would remain the 6-14 channel with the bonus of Adult Swim in the late hours and Toonami on Saturday while the other two channels will focus more on 14 and up and have older viewer programing for about half the day. For this to be truely awesome they'd need to get the WB toons back from Nick for the comedy network.

I would gladly find a way to get CNX and CNC. These two channels could easily take away what little thunder SpikeTV still has.

[Sketch]

Sample CNX Weekdays

06:00 AM - .hack//
06:30 AM - Astroboy
07:00 AM - One Piece
07:30 AM - Dragonball GT
08:00 AM - X-Men: Evolution
08:30 AM - Static Shock
09:00 AM - Transformers: Energon
09:30 AM - Batman Beyond
10:00 AM - Superfriends
10:30 AM - GI-Joe
11:00 AM - Thundercats
11:30 AM - Pirates of Dark Water
12:00 PM - SWAT Cats
12:30 PM - The Real Adventures of Jonny Quest
01:00 PM - The Roulete
01:30 PM - Dragonball
02:00 PM - Dragonball GT
02:30 PM - Dragonball Z
03:00 PM - Teen Titans
03:30 PM - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
04:00 PM - Megas XLR
04:30 PM - Cyborg 009
05:00 PM - Dragonball Z
05:30 PM - Yu Yu Hakusho
06:00 PM - Case Closed
06:30 PM - Gundam SEED
07:00 PM - Inuyasha
07:30 PM - Samurai Jack
08:00 PM - Justice League
08:30 PM - Superman: TAS
09:00 PM - Batman: TAS
09:30 PM - The Big O
10:00 PM - Fullmetal Alchemist
10:30 PM - Ghost in the Shell: The Stand Alone Complex
11:00 PM - Cowboy Bebop
11:30 PM - Trigun
12:00 AM - Lupin the 3rd
12:30 AM - Witch Hunter Robin
01:00 AM - Wolf's Rain
01:30 AM - Android Kikaider
02:00 AM - Blue Gender
02:30 AM - Case Closed
03:00 AM - Inuyasha
03:30 AM - Fullmetal Alchemist
04:00 AM - Ghost in the Shell: The Stand Alone Complex
04:30 AM - Cowboy Bebop
05:00 AM - Trigun
05:30 AM - The Big O

Sample CNC Weekdays

06:00 AM - Pinky and The Brain
06:30 AM - Freakazoid
07:00 AM - What a Cartoon Show!
07:30 AM - Cow and Chicken
08:00 AM - The Flinstones
08:30 AM - The Jetsons
09:00 AM - Toon Heads
09:30 AM - The Bob Clampit Show
10:00 AM - The Tex Avery Show
10:30 AM - The Chuck Jones Show
11:00 AM - Popeye
11:30 AM - Black and White (well it's not late night)
12:00 PM - Boomerang
01:00 PM - The ACME Hour
02:00 PM - Tiny Toon Adventures
02:30 PM - Animaniacs!
03:00 PM - Pinky and the Brain
03:30 PM - Time Squad
04:00 PM - Duck Dodgers
04:30 PM - Freakazoid
05:00 PM - Jonny Bravo
05:30 PM - Cow and Chicken
06:00 PM - The Oblongs
06:30 PM - Mission Hill
07:00 PM - The Flintstones
07:30 PM - The Jetsons
08:00 PM - Space Ghost C2C
08:30 PM - Home Movies
09:00 PM - Futurama
09:30 PM - Family Guy
10:00 PM - Aqua Teen Hunger Force
10:30 PM - Harvey Birdman
11:00 PM - Sealab 2021
11:30 PM - The Brak Show
12:00 PM - Venture Bros.
12:30 PM - Robot Chicken / Tom Goes
01:00 AM - Space Ghost C2C
01:30 AM - Home Movies
02:00 AM - Futurama
02:30 AM - Family Guy
03:00 AM - Aqua Teen Hunger Force
03:30 AM - Harvey Birdman
04:00 AM - Sealab 2021
04:30 AM - The Brak Show
05:00 AM - Venture Bros.
05:30 AM - Robot Chicken / Tom Goes

Noting that isn't much easier to fill an aciton network for me... But mostly because CN has more action shows than comedies despite airing more comedies than action shows (but mostly doubled up programing).

[Wanted]

Yeah, it's like comedy is going 'the way of the dog' to action series.

And, yet, Atomic Betty would be better off on the action channel than the comedy channel...

[Jon Hanson]

Well considering Adult Swim now gets its own ratings via Neilson (and thus separate advertising allotments), would it be that insane to see Adult Swim spin-off into its own network one day? That's the only spin off I can see happening. Most these other spin offs would just confuse the viewers because they would look too much like Cartoon Network, but Adult Swim already feels land gets treated like a tottally different channel, and I could see the demand. I wouldn't be sprised to see an Adult Swim channel in a few years.

[auto]

4 Cartoon Networks would be 3 too many.

[Mr Cat Dog]

I think 3 would be better, scrapping Boomerang, and spreading them out over the other 3 channels. Personally, I think Toonami should join forces with Adult Swim's action block, and CNC should join with Adult Swim's Comedy. Because of this, Adult Swim + Toonami would obviously be cut from CN, leaving more room for the Boomerang cartoons that would'n't fit into CNX or CNC to be on at Adult Swim/Toonami times. Because of this, there'd be less repeats and such, which is always a good thing.

Obviously, this is just my personal preference... it'll never happen, although I do see an Adult Swim channel on the not too distant horizon.

[Wanted]

I don't really think that so many Cartoon Networks are really needed. If you want a real action channel, just pair up TNT with Adult Swim.

If you want a classic channel, TCM+Boomerang=TCM/Boomerang.

If you want... well, there's already a Cartoon Network. It would be absurd for Cartoon Network to have three spinoffs (even though CNN has an amount).

[Natey]

well considering many ppl miss old toonami shows and cartoon cartoons it would be a great idea to have ma CNS


im weird but my channels i wud want 4 CN

CN (DUH)
boomerang(DUH)
CNX/soem AS shows
CNcomedysome as shows
CNs Origanals (all cn origanals plus stuff like 2 stupid dawgs and stuff like dat)

i no it wont happen but if it did it would be a dream cum true

nvm CNs oringanals is a bad idea

[Wanted]

i no it wont happen but if it did it would be a dream cum trueOr a nightmare from Hell!

You never know what can go wrong when a channel creates spinoffs.

[One Radical Dude]

It does sound intriguing. However, creating too many CN channels might be a bad business move for Time Warner. I'm with you guys that having more CN channels would rock, but I'm not for these new channels if they turn out to perform poorly.

[Sketch]

Boomerang cartoons fail on CN. They'd have to be on the spin-off networks and CN can't drop all their action shows. That'd be a very bad because while I'd like to think CNX would be avaible widely right off the bat, it wouldn't be. And Toonami is CN's only block that targets above 6-11 in the daytime. Taking AS completely off CN would also be very bad because it's convient to watch where it is. Though now that it isn't counted in CN's ratings... I guess it doesn't matter for CN's ratings. But it would most likely affect Adult Swim's ratings.

You have to keep the base channel pretty much as is and then have either a classic channel with comedy and action and have a new action channel and a new comedy channel or have the classics mixed into the action and comedy channels (which IMO would work best and keep the channels from getting boring).

[freerock1.com]

It does sound intriguing. However, creating too many CN channels might be a bad business move for Time Warner. I'm with you guys that having more CN channels would rock, but I'm not for these new channels if they turn out to perform poorly.TW Networks (except for HBO) have been slow to embrace the multichannel idea, and that could be why.

Although it would be nice to see them do this with CN.

[Conan-san]

I agree, "Films prefromed in 30 seconds and by bunnies" needs to be on adult swim!