24 "Day 4: 8:00 pm - 9:00 pm" Talkback (Spoilers)

[The Penguin]

He's tried to escape it. He's tried to silence it. But for Jack Bauer... instinct never dies.

http://wf.toonzone.net/wfboards/jack24s4.jpg
24: Season Four
Day 4: 8:00 pm - 9:00 pm

JACK USES DINA TO CONTACT MARWAN, NEW CTU DIRECTOR BRINGS IN SPECIALIST TO ASSIST EDGAR ON "24" MONDAY, MARCH 21, ON FOX

Jack plans to use Dina to contact Marwan. Meanwhile, CTU’s new director brings in a satellite specialist to assist Edgar in the episode “Day 4: 8:00 PM–9:00 PM” Monday, March 21 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (TWF-414) (TV-14; V) CC-HDTV 720p-Dolby Digital 5.1

Cast: Kiefer Sutherland as Jack Bauer, William Devane as James Heller, Kim Raver as Audrey Raines, Lana Parrilla as Sarah Gavin.

Guest Cast: Shohreh Aghdashloo as Dina Araz, Jonathan Ahdout as Behrooz Araz, Carlos Bernard as Tony Almeida, Louis Lombardi as Edgar Stiles, James Frain as Paul Raines, Arnold Vosloo as Marwan, Geoff Pierson as President Keeler, Adam Alexi-Malle as Joseph Fayed, David Adnriole as John Hansen, Amy Benedict as Laurie Hansen, Ned Vaughn as Mitch Anderson.

Comments?

As a bit of excitement for those of you who join me in the Central Time Zone. You can follow along tonight. :p

Also, check out the Previous Episode Talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=136359).

[Spider-Man]

I can't believe they killed Dina like that. You think she's being carried off then she's plugged twice.

And it looks like Jack has lost another girl.

[Fone Bone]

Most off-screen deaths you take with a grain of salt. Not on 24. Goodbye Dina Araz. I feel really bad for Beroohz but honestly his pardon agreement should be air-tight now.

Yay! Chloe's back! I love her broken up response that Driscoll was fired. And screw Tony/Michelle and Jack/Audrey! I am now an official Chloe/Edgar shipper!

I like how Edgar is the first and only person without his full attention on the job not being fired for no reason. Once Tony went over to Michelle I was worried, but his only punishment was the work with the lovely Chloe. Lucky guy.

I really want Paul to pull through. And as weird as this sounds I want Audrey to get back with him too. I like it when Jack's happy (a rarity) but honestly after Jack tortured him and then Paul took a bullet for him there is just no way in heck Jack will ever be able to measure up to Audrey again.

I guess the President being evil WAS a misdirection from last week. He looks to be getting assasinated. Bummer.

And was I the only one surprised and freaked out by the Black Widow woman? Post coital she pulls a gun on a guy and hands him over to terrorists who kill him and his family. Yikes. Talk about bad sex.

I am really glad Sarah is gone and they made Curtis a regular. They should do the same for Edgar and Chloe.

A really good episode, as always. ****.

[Lord Dalek]

8:00 PM-9:00 PM Deathcount: Air Force Dude, Air Force Dude's family (unconfirmed), Joseph Fayed, CTU Agent Baron, Dina Araz

Wow. Marwan's doing the impossible here, staying one step ahead of CTU and Jack Bauer. Chloe's back, hooray! Edgar might not appreciate her but she's kicking butt like earlier this season. Bye bye Dina, it's a shame your name rhymed with "Nina".

8-8 gets a solid A .

[Temple Fugate]

Ack! My mouse slipped on the poll button. Meant to choose ****1/2. Anyway, great episode tonight. No huge complaints other than the obligatory "That chick in the bedroom should have been Mandy" fanboy comment. But then we would have all seen the betrayal coming.

I'm so glad they brought the Arazes back for this episode. Usually when one guest character's arc is over they're dismissed for the rest of the season. Too bad her return didn't last long. (She's still the creepiest mother ever.) You did good, Dina. But don't you think she would have known Marwan would pull a switch like that and then plant a bomb in the guy's car? She even asked him why he was so nervous. I think she should know how her own terrorist pals operate, considering she's probably had some training before coming to the US.

I was rooting for Paul at the end of last episode, but now...I dunno. I guess I was just feeling so glad about Paul doing good things for Jack the last couple of hours after being set up as this possessive hard-ass of a husband. Obviously Audrey's very conflicted right now, but I don't see any way she'll go back to Jack now, whether Paul lives or dies.

Marshal law? Come now, Mr. President. What would Palmer do?

Hey, Chloe! We missed you. (Chloe: "Okay, whatever.") That a girl. Keep up the 'tude.

24 #4AFF14: "Day 4: 8:00pm-9:00pm" - ****1/2

10 hours remain...

[Martianinvader]

What's interesting about this is I don't see them finding Jack immediately--not when their closest lead is the now-abandoned van. And if they don't, he'll have to play Helpless for another hour, and by that time, the plan to ransom the President will be in full swing, at which point THEY'LL NEED JACK!

Why was Chloe so reluctant to help Jack now? She seemed like a pretty loyal friend earlier.

Is CTU going to resort to torturing the boy? Eww, please don't, you guys...it's a kid; have a heart; he knows nothing.

And finally, here's a big question that's been bothering me: the ratings for 24 have been the highest ever this season. It's been in the top 20 for most of the run. But the problem is, I don't see the show going anywhere but down from here. They've already covered every big thing a terrorist can possibly do. All they can do is repeat themselves from this point, and the show will get stale. Jack has already quit CTU here and so have many of his co-workers who were also dragged back in...what are they going to do, keep finding ways to drag them back together every season?
And of course, at this point, everyone will be watching and will have no problem with it, just like they have no problem with watching the same medical dramas regurgitated in new series endlessly. 24 will lose the critics, but gain the viewers. This will be very annoying...

[stwasm]

And the body count rises. This thing is turning bloodier than "Scarface" and "Macbeth" combined. Never thought you'd see a Shakespearean play and a landmark 80s film in the same sentence, did you?

Anyway, I, too, now find myself pulling for Paul. This happened over the couple of episodes and now I really feel bad for hating him earlier. I can't see Audrey returning to Jack, now. You may recall that I mentioned a few weeks ago that something would happen that would split them up. That's coming dangerously close to reality. Yikes!

Poor Behrooz! His mother kills his girlfriend. He has to kill the guy hired by his father to whack him. He sees his mother get shot. He kills his father. Now, Dina gets smoked! And, oh how brutal was that! He may be free when all is said and done, but he'll have some severe psychological issues.

I could hear half the country erupt into applause when Chloe made her return. Yes, I say that she and Edgar should hook up. Poor guy. He loses his mother and now Tony is giving him the business. As an aside, I'm really gaining a whole new respect for the woman who plays her. I've seen her do slapstick on that "Sketch Show" on Sunday nights, then, Monday, we're all treated to those shifty, beady eyes of her's and those exasperated sighs. She even broke a brief smile.

Michelle has turned into a real hard-***! But, I like her metal and the way she's taking charge of things. And you can almost see her and Tony getting back together.

Palmer was great in his Allstate commercials. Oh, wait a minute..... :D

GREAT episode! And there's still much more to go! I don't know if I can take it!

[ClockStomper]

The CC had Jack screaming for them to spare Dina at the end of the episode, for whatever reason they muted it in editing.

[DarkAngel]

Marshal law? Come now, Mr. President. What would Palmer do?It would be kind of cool to see Martial Law enforced, but it seems like a bizarre move. At least to me.

And I'm glad Dina pulled the trigger on Marwan instead of Jack. Haven't we had at least one scene like this before? I can't remember who it was that was being tested then, but I remember the gun wasn't loaded then either. If she had tried shooting Jack, it would have been the exact same thing. Of course, the downside here is Dina's dead, but to me her character's outlived her usefulness to the show anyway.

As for this whole attempt by CTU. Seems like a waste to me. It looks like its just going to be one big detour for them. How could they possibly have imagined this would work? Dina showing up at another cell member's house with Jack hostage? During the "rescue" all the others were killed. Right. That's just too convenient. Of course Marwan saw through it. I know, Jack had to try. But it seems stupid to me. And that's ignoring the switch in the tunnel. Who couldn't see that coming?

Jack has already quit CTU here and so have many of his co-workers who were also dragged back in...what are they going to do, keep finding ways to drag them back together every season? How about killing Jack? Or have him go bad (if they can come up with some reasonable reason to have him go over the edge).

What I'd like to see them do, as I've mentioned in the past, is split each season into two 12-part stories. In that way they could cut down on a lot of the melodrama and the needless padding. And I'd bring in a completely new cast and leave CTU behind. New characters, new setting, two stories per season, and of course the real-time aspect maintained. That would bring about a good change, I think.

[Carolina Red]

It would be kind of cool to see Martial Law enforced, but it seems like a bizarre move. At least to me.
It's not like there's total chaos in the country right now. Don't count on it.

As for this whole attempt by CTU. Seems like a waste to me. It looks like its just going to be one big detour for them. How could they possibly have imagined this would work?In the hopes of getting someone Jack wants to speak to closer to him? Of course this is kinda like that phony robbery early on.

[Temple Fugate]

They shouldn't even think of imposing marshal law. Season 2 was the worst for civilians, with the nuke and mass hysteria. But even with the power outage in part of the city, there doesn't seem to be reason for the public to go on a mass panic. And from what we've seen in previous seasons, the people of LA can be very composed when in large groups. (Not counting stupid rednecks of course.)

And I'm glad Dina pulled the trigger on Marwan instead of Jack. Haven't we had at least one scene like this before? I can't remember who it was that was being tested then, but I remember the gun wasn't loaded then either. If she had tried shooting Jack, it would have been the exact same thing. Of course, the downside here is Dina's dead, but to me her character's outlived her usefulness to the show anyway.Ramon did the same empty gun trick on Jack when he asked Jack to kill Chase in the middle of season 3. Funny thing is, I still didn't see this one coming. The difference between the two scenarios is that Jack very likely knew what Ramon was planning. He pulled the gun from a box on a table instead of giving him one of his goon's guns, and Jack might have even witnessed a similar situation while he was undercover. Dina had no such experience or intuition to go on, and so believed completely that the gun was loaded. One thing she should have done, though, was to be a little faster on the pull. Her switch from Jack to Marwan was way too slow, and if the gun was really loaded, Marwan would have had plenty of time to dodge, and probably take the gun from her as well if he could move fast enough.

[randomguy]

Funny thing is, I still didn't see this one coming. The difference between the two scenarios is that Jack very likely knew what Ramon was planning. He pulled the gun from a box on a table instead of giving him one of his goon's guns, and Jack might have even witnessed a similar situation while he was undercover.
That, and anyone with any experience in firearms can discern between a loaded and unloaded gun by weight. Most movies and TV shows tend to ignore that, but there's a good three pound difference, and it's very noticeable if you've held a decent amount of guns.

[Jon Hanson]

Just watched it, great episode. I really wasn't expecting Dina to get killed, and especially not as quietly as she did. I cannot wait until next Monday.

[Temple Fugate]

That, and anyone with any experience in firearms can discern between a loaded and unloaded gun by weight. Most movies and TV shows tend to ignore that, but there's a good three pound difference, and it's very noticeable if you've held a decent amount of guns.Ah, I never thought of that. Then again, I've only held a gun once in my life.

[David Lucas]

That really WAS my only complaint with the episode. Not the, "She should have felt the weight." or "She should have known it was a setup."

Just the situation itself called for her to do it. She WANTS Jack dead. Her son is already safe, this whole deal was to be with him. Now, if you're son is in good hands, nothing you do will change that, you have a man who you want to kill right in front of you, a bunch of your terrorist allies give you a gun and tell you to kill him, you turn the gun on the leader with several armed men around you?

I woulda just shot Jack.

Think about it, she shoots Jack, even if the gun was loaded, her terrorist friends believe her. She gets to go cavorting around with them, Jack's dead, so they most likely go through with their plan, the son gets sent off to live somewhere without her, there's still the off chance she could track him down and see him in the future.

Meanwhile, if she pulls the gun on Marwar, she's toast.

Let alone, that this is JACK BAUER. From what she's seen so far today she should KNOW that he's worth more to them alive than dead. For someone as evil and caniving as Dina, I really expected more from her.

As for Air Force Opie killing that guy, that final line, "Your family's dead, and so are you." I understand he was going for time frame, not dramatics, but he shoulda used the cliche "You're gonna join them." line, rather than the corny, "So are you."

Ah well, still a great episode.

[Tienshin]

That, and anyone with any experience in firearms can discern between a loaded and unloaded gun by weight. Most movies and TV shows tend to ignore that, but there's a good three pound difference, and it's very noticeable if you've held a decent amount of guns.

Not necessarily. The weapon could have easily had a single chambered round and an empty clip. Besides she would have only needed one bullet to kill Jack if Marwan hadn't been testing her. I certainly wouldn't have given her 16 shots if there were any doubts about her intentions.

[DarkAngel]

Think about it, she shoots Jack, even if the gun was loaded, her terrorist friends believe her. She gets to go cavorting around with them, Jack's dead, so they most likely go through with their plan, the son gets sent off to live somewhere without her, there's still the off chance she could track him down and see him in the future.Well, that's the thing right there, David. Like you said, there'd be an "off chance" she'd see her son again. That's not good enough for her. The only reason she turned on her "terrorist friends" was because of her son. That's it. So she's not going to throw away her chance to be with him.

And let's also keep in mind the intensity of the situation she was in. A lot of pressure there. She didn't exactly have a lot of time to think everything through. Her gut reaction was she wanted to be with her son and I'd say that's what she acted on. There wasn't much time for her to assess her feelings beyond that.

[randomguy]

Not necessarily. The weapon could have easily had a single chambered round and an empty clip. Besides she would have only needed one bullet to kill Jack if Marwan hadn't been testing her. I certainly wouldn't have given her 16 shots if there were any doubts about her intentions.Point taken. My memory of the episode is kind of foggy, but if I remember correctly, Marwan randomgly grabs a gun from one of his associates. I assumed that in that case, the gun was unlikely to be specially prepared, and was therefore an all-or-nothing prospect. That's pretty shaky reasoning, though.

That being said, it's by no means an oversight or anything, because we're left with the impression that Dina knows nothing about firearms.

I think my frustration over the old "unloaded gun" dramatic device springs most notably from Die Another Day, where Miranda Frost pulls it on James Bond. I remember seeing that in the theatre and saying "You're telling me James friggin' Bond doesn't recognize an unloaded gun?!?"

*ahem*

Anyway, in order to stay on topic, I rather liked this episode. I'm glad they got Jack into a captivity situation, because I felt CTU (at least from a dramatic standpoint) was getting a little too effective over the last few hours. The show is at its best when things aren't running particularly well, and having Jack in the hands of terrorists ups the suspense factor considerably. I was surprised to see Dina offed so early, because the character had a lot of potential, but it's just as well.

And I too was hoping to get a cameo from Mia Kirshner as Mandy, but it was not to be. At least that plot is shaping up nicely. I'm curious as to what Marwan and company are planning for the President. The show's done the threat of presidential assasination before (twice, actually), so maybe they'll take a new route and have him get captured or something.

So what does everybody think of this season so far? Specifically, how do you think it's stacking up to the previous seasons? Myself, I'm inclined to say it's a step up from Season 3 (which was inconsistent and loaded with plot holes).

[DarkAngel]

So what does everybody think of this season so far? Specifically, how do you think it's stacking up to the previous seasons? Myself, I'm inclined to say it's a step up from Season 3 (which was inconsistent and loaded with plot holes).To me, it's the best since season 1. During seasons 2 and 3, the flaws of the show really stood out to me (padding to extend story over 24 episodes, tendency toward melodrama) and I was tuning in and out. I'd watch a few episodes, miss a few, etc.

This season, I feel much more incentive to watch. It might be in part due to (slightly) lessening some of those weaknesses I mentioned above. But largely, I think its because they hit us with four hours worth in two days. That really got things rolling since by week 2 we were already into hour 5. They got all the setup done quickly and out of the way and soon we were well into the story after just a few weeks. And starting in january was also good since there have been no interruptions and its pretty much been one straight run so far. For me, there has been better flow this year and no opportunity for my interest to seriously wane.

[Temple Fugate]

This season is on par with season 1 in terms of consistency. There were times in 2 and 3 where we'd get one or two episodes with little suspense that just plodded ahead with the story with not really any intrigue. Of course, there was the occasional episode that was amazing, but overall the season didn't have a connectedness to it. Today, everything going on is tied to one person, giving Jack a bad guy foil much like Drazen or Saunders to play with for almost the entire season instead of the last 1/3 of it. (Of course, this could always change by the end, but I'm hoping it doesn't.)

Do I think it's better than season 1? No way. For now, I rank them from best to worst 1, 2, 4, 3.

[The Landstander]

I would rank them 2, 1, 4, 3 (as of now) myself. The first half of 1 was excellent but the second half got gimmicky, and 3 only got good when Saunders showed up. With the obvious exception of Kim's idiotic storylines, I don't think season 2 had any major problems at all.

The big problem this season is its rather obvious they're making it up as they go along ("hey, let's change the threat" "hey, let's bring ___ back").

That being said, this episode was pretty good. Always good to see Jack in an unescapable situation that he escapes from. Liked the stuff with Evil Conan O'Brien, too.

[Temple Fugate]

The big problem this season is its rather obvious they're making it up as they go along ("hey, let's change the threat" "hey, let's bring ___ back").

That being said, this episode was pretty good. Always good to see Jack in an unescapable situation that he escapes from. Liked the stuff with Evil Conan O'Brien, too.Glad I'm not the only one who saw the resemblance between Evil Air Force Guy and Conan O'Brien. :narf:

Just making it up as they go along doesn't bother me as much as I thought it would. Even though we've been going from one threat to another, the incidents flow together pretty well. Season 2 it was obvious they had no plan for the final 9 episodes when they planned out the nuke storyline, and season 3 was practically two completely separate stories, which makes viewing it as one coherent season difficult (as well as virtually unwatchable between 1pm and 1am because we now know the entire thing is a sham.)

I'm with you on the whole "Let's bring ____ back" angle. If they wanted Tony and Michelle to return, the writers should have just begun the season WITH THEM. It was nice to see Jack go and do field ops with Tony to get him back into the groove, but I'd rather they started the season with Tony in charge, give us a quick explanation about Palmer's pardon, and be done with it. That way we would have been spared the horror that is Erin Driscoll.

[Fone Bone]

This is the best season since season one. It helps that all of the REALLY annoying characters have either left, been killed, or turned cool this early in the season. I'm definately enjoying it more than I did the last two seasons. I agree completely that the non-stop of the episodes helps me get into the shows groove quicker and easier. I just hope they do the same thing for the show next year (Alias too.)

As for rating the seasons I'm not going to bother rating this one because it's not over yet. But here are my picks for the first three seasons.

1. Day One. Like Survivor they will NEVER be able to duplicate the exilaration of the first season. Unlike Survivor the show is still good.

2. Day Three. The whole thing with the Columbian drug cartel SUCKED. But once the virus got released in the hotel the season was great.

3. Day two. Kim WRECKED this season. Highlights were George Mason's sacrifice and Nina's return but once we had Kim being chased by cougars and the President being forced to step down the season completely lost me.

[The Landstander]

Season 2 it was obvious they had no plan for the final 9 episodes when they planned out the nuke storylineActually, from what I read, I'm pretty sure they DID plan the whole thing out, or at least had a good idea. That's why the whole conspiracy actually makes sense (or at least the most sense out of any season). Though I'll agree the first half of the season was better.

Maybe my opinion has been affected because I watched seasons 1/2 via DVD as opposed to weekly.

[stwasm]

As for Air Force Opie killing that guy, that final line, "Your family's dead, and so are you."
AIR FORCE OPIE?!?!? That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time! LMAO!!!!

Personally, I saw nothing wrong with the "so are you" line. I made sense to me.