Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle 3/17-3/18 Talkback

[Ultra Mike]

Today And Tommorow At 2:30 PM, Cartoon Network is giving you another small batch of new TMNT episodes not seen on 4Kids TV Yet.

Today is the episode "Same As It Never Was" Continuing the 5 parter "Turtles Across The Dimensions" Saga

Donatello finds himself in an alternate, dystopian reality...The Shredder is in control, familiar faces have been drastically and literally altered...is there no hope?

Tommorow is the episode "Bishop's Gambit" which was originally suppose to air after the final two parts of the "Turtles Across The Dimensions" Saga.

Agent Bishop's scheme to create the ultimate mutant weapon is only a HAIR away from completion...rat hair, that is, can the Turtles stop him before harm comes to their rodent sensei?

Anyway enjoy and remember to watch them now if you don't want to wait for 4KidsTV to show the episodes.

[creativerealms]

I love episodes like this one, episodes that show just what could happen if the bad guy takes over. From Splinter and Casey's early deaths being a reminder to the fates of each of the characters. How one person can be so important, the turtles need each other their personalities are so that they would fall apart if even one Turtle was missing, in this case Don but I doubt the situation would have been any different if it was Mikey who went missing.

Some things never change even in Thirty years Leo and Karai still have feelings for each other dispite all that comes between them and Hun and Stockman still hate each others guts even when they have the same body. A darker more mature Mikey, a Raph and Leo who get along even less then before, the Utrom's as Shredder's slaves, everything about this episode was great.

Of course while this is a very serious episode I cracked up luaghing when I saw Hun and Stockman's fate, yet it was really fitting.

11/10

[Sharklady]

Oh, WOW!!

Such action!

Such pathos!

Such an abundance of corpses! (Not that I'm crazy about carnage, but it is honest to acknowledge that people do die in battle.)

And, being a Donatello fan, I greatly enjoy seeing his importaince to the team acknowledged. That may have been Peter Laird's input; he has identified Don as his favorite turtle (possibly related: there is another futuristic story in the comicbooks where Don turned out to be the Sole Survivor.)

This ep gets my vote for Best Of The Series (so far.)


P.S. I've never felt sorrier for Hun- he certainly got a lousy repayment for his inordinate loyalty.

P.P. S. I suspect there's a reason 'Uncle Augi's artifact' was mentioned at the beginning- perhaps that's going to play a role in finishing this saga?

[Freedom Fighter]

Interesting episode, much better than the Mikey and Raph solos. A good amount of action, the darkness of a Shredder-led future, and notable characters falling by the wayside. Plenty of Karai bots to give off a cyber-punk look, while combining with possibly unintentional humor in seeing Hun and Stockman forced to co-exist together as one to survive.

8 out of 10 for "Same as it Never Was." One of Season 3's best, definitely.

[Sketch]

Not only one of the best of Season 3 but also one of the best PERIOD. This episode was amazing. The turtles designs were freak'n awesome. Especially Leonardo. The episode had a cliche plotline but the execution was inspired. Creepy showing Hun and Stockman stuck together. And it was nice that they didn't leave out any of the important relationships like Leo and Karai. So much carnage and so much emmotion. It gave me goose bumps. Man it'll be nutz if you have to play a level based on that in the 3rd game. ABSOLUTELY nutz.

[Ultra Mike]

The main failty of this episode for me was that it was done on 4KidsTV. I mean really. Imagine what it would be like on say Adult Swim.

Which means I really don't have anything bad to say about this ep. Like the others said, it's defintley best so far of the dimension sent arcs (and I think it will be the best, or at least that's my feeling anyway). It's nice to see that Don played such a vital role to the team, and seeing how the turtles survived a war torn 30 years. I really liked everyone's future version, and Future Shredder just had one bad-ass mech. I mean seriously, I'd like to see anything in the TMNT universe go against it regularly. I also liked the fairly high death toll, this being in an alternate reality and all: Splinter and Casey giving they're lives to save the others or go against the Shredder, Mikey being sliced up by the Robo Karis, Leo and Raph getting taken down by the regular Karai (who was then missled to death by April) and Shredder being destroyed by the drill. Very powerful stuff.

Best Parts: The future Turltes designs (espically One handed Serious Michaelangelo), Hun and Stockman getting fused together and stepped on by Shredder, Alternate shredder taking control of all the Utroms and crushing the other resitances in the opening, Donny fading away at the end.

GRADE: 4.5 Stars Out of 5.

Oh, and a couple of other notes I noticed.

One: The Credits and title looked a lot more bold then they usually do.

Two: The ending credits were actually the credits FOR THE EPISODE. On CN the Turtles credits are just for the second or third episode (which means the ending credits are played on a different tape obviously). Here though the ending credits are the ones for the episode, 2005 date and all (they even the 4KidsTV sign after it).

Three: There were different angles used in the opening fight with Ultra-Draco sending the turtles away across the multiverse. I guess to spice things up or something.

[ClockStomper]

It borrowed a lot from the Gargoyles episode "Future Tense", but hey, if you're ganna steal, why not from the best?

I was surprised they showed the slash marks on Leo and Raph...since Karai killed them in that future, you know she'll betray Shredder in the regular timeline. the part about the concentration camps was interesting too, but how the hell did Shredder get Utroms working for him? It seemed like he needed a transmat built for him, so I doubt he got them from the Utrom home planet.

Mikey was probably my favorite future Turtle. Too bad they didn't use the Archie future, Don and Raph are pretty bad ass in that future (plus they get mechs!)

Was Leo blind? I know as a ninja he could function without sight (proving "Lone Raph and Cub" is the suckiest episode to ever suck) butthey never made it clear.

[Sharklady]

> ...but how the hell did Shredder get Utroms working for him? <

Shredder refered to them as slaves at one point. I'd guess he used some mechanism or other to ensnare them (perhaps implanted mind-control chips?)

[EHal]

Great episode, but I kept wondering what happened to the Donatello of that reality. I kept expecting him to appear at the end. Maybe the Donatello of that reality used Uncle Augi's artifact and was sent to another dimension or time period. That would explain why it was mentioned at the beginning of the episode.

[lostrune]

1. Whoa! Mikey a badass?! And he killed that copter! :o

2. Whoa! April is so old! And so is Kirai! :(

3. Shredder actually used Utrom as the head?! :ack:

4. Shredder actually killed Hun+Stockman! And they killed Mikey! You bastards! :eek:

5. Lame! Leo should had been the one who kills Kirai! :rolleyes2

6. Shredder got shredded!
Though the old Shredder would've built in an ejector seat. :shrug:

[LordTerminal]

Shredder actually used Utrom as the head?! Is it me or does he look more like Krang with his Utrom head in the armor?

EDIT: Okay something is definately wrong with CN's scheduling department. Because it's the 18th yet the episode they're playing isn't Bishop's Gambit but a rerun. Did I miss something earlier on in the topic?:confused:

[Simpler Simon]

Oh wow...that was seriously depressing. Absolutely awesome episode, blows away the last two parts completely, but seriously depressing. A dark twisted future without any light or hope.

I'm slightly stunned by what the episode got away with in terms of showing death and destruction. I guess they got away with killing all the turtles because they weren't technically the real turtles. Also things like Mikey missing an arm (his VA does a respectable gruff voice), and even Splinter's lone grave.

Odd point: April's obviously aged, but the Karai design is basically her with gray hair. Either Shredder gave her some means of slowing the aging process, or she just takes better care of her looks than April can. Not that I'm complaining, because I didn't want to see Karai old and wrinkled anyway.

Amazing episode, easily 5 stars.

[Ultra Mike]

Instead of airing "Bishop's Gambit" today, CN aired "The Ultimate Ninja" instead. I guess they realized it would be stupid to air an episode out of continuity and instead will air it when the show comes back in a couple of weeks (Apparently for the next two weeks CN afternoons is doing a double showing of Foster's, KND, Atomic betty and Puffy Ami Yumi for they're "spring break". Oh boy, that sounds so good). I'm kind of happy since I didn't want to see the episode out of continuity, but on the other hand you have to wonder why CN pulled it off at the last minute. Then again, they do a lot of scheduling things at the last minute nowadays (pulling Rave Master and putting Dragonball GT on weeknights) for example. Hmmm, so that should mean that we'll see the next two part of the "Turtles across the Dimensions" arc on 4KidsTV first (3/26 and 4/2 respecitvley) and "Bishop's Gambit" and the Season Three 2 part finale ("Exodus") on CN the following week (4/6- 4/8 I believe).

[Mandi-chan]

Amazing episode!

I LOVED Mikey in this episode, I mean I loved him already (As I'm sure all of you know by now) but he was uber good in this episode! His voice was soo sexy! It was nice to see his serious side at full force, but at the same time it was sad because he lost all of his cute boyish characteristics.... The tension, the emotion, the death...this episode had it all, and I loved every bloody minute of it!:D

I had a horrible feeling Mikey was going to die, my stomache was in knots as that scene played. He was surrounded by too many of those robots, he could only do so much with one arm...I was so moved when he yelled for Donnie to help him, and then screamed in pain as he was brutally killed:crying: ....Out of all the turtle deaths in this episode, his was the most brutal.

They better make action figures for this ep!!!!! http://www.thetechnodrome.com/forums/smilies/icon_smile.gif Also could someone make screencaps from this ep?!!

I loved it!

[creativerealms]

I was glad cartoon Network desided not to play Bishop's Gambit as well seeing the Turtles suddenly back home would make no sense. Oh yes Utrom head Shredder reminded me of Krang when he took over Shredder's body in the old Archie Turtle's comics.

[Sketch]

I was glad cartoon Network desided not to play Bishop's Gambit as well seeing the Turtles suddenly back home would make no sense. Oh yes Utrom head Shredder reminded me of Krang when he took over Shredder's body in the old Archie Turtle's comics.
My guess was that it was an Archie comic reference. As were the future turtles I think (just a bit anyway).

[krazymed]

Personally, I'm rather tired of these superhero "future stories" where everyone is either buffed up or disabled and the world is in shambles. Is there one superhero cartoon out there that actually takes into account that the future may not be so bleak. I like the red sky effect, but move on.

Seriously, by my count of shows that have done this, that's JL, JLU, Superman, X-Men, Spider-man, TMNT (both versions), Gargoyles, and Exosquad (by default). And those are the ones off the top of my head. Enough already.

[Fone Bone]

A REALLY great episode.

The best thing about this episode was the questions it's raised which alarmingly few people in this talkback have tried to answer. The first and most obvious. IS this the future? Or just an alternate dimension? Keep in mind the sceptre that the Damiyo used could transplant people to future times. If it WAS the future why did it exist in the first place? Wouldn't Don coming home after his time traveling adventure negate it since he didn't have to look for a way home? OR, and this is the big question-- does Don disappear somewhere ELSE down the line? I thought it was VERY interesting that Don never noted to the others at exactly WHICH moment he disappeared as that could have been used to note that they HAD survived the Damiyo's attack and Don went missing later.

If this IS the future Don had better make DARN sure he never disappears and try to realize that this IS a future that could happen without him.

Also he should tell the others about Karai and how she worked for Shredder even after he commited genocide and took over the world. She CANNOT be trusted.

Also, what happened to Bishop? And Leatherhead and the Fugitoid for that matter?

A REALLY good episode and I still have a lot of questions. *****.

[Freedom Fighter]

Personally, I'm rather tired of these superhero "future stories" where everyone is either buffed up or disabled and the world is in shambles. Is there one superhero cartoon out there that actually takes into account that the future may not be so bleak. I like the red sky effect, but move on.Good point. Still, it wouldn't be much of an action show if a character went to a future where everything's nearly perfect and there's no evil in the world.

How do you beat someone up if there's no one evil to beat up?

[Simpler Simon]

If this IS the future Don had better make DARN sure he never disappears and try to realize that this IS a future that could happen without him.
I'm wondering if the season finale will touch on some of the points that have been established in this time traveling arc - the possibility that Splinter might turn evil after killing Shredder, or Donny's fear that the future will go to hell if the Shredder isn't stopped. It'd be nice for the turtles to be affected by what they've seen.

Not sure if Raph's story had anything that could connect it to the shredder or a personal fear, though (unless it's his winning without honor isnt winning speech).

[ClockStomper]

I don't think this future fits with the current turtle time-line. Firstly, no mention of Ultimate Draco's attack, secondly, where would Shredder get Utrom slaves from? In "our" TMNT universe, they all left, and the "future" Shredder was building a transmat, so he couldn't have gone back to his home planet yet. Then there's the fact Shredder taking over earth is seems inconsistant with "our" Shredder's motives, who wants to throw away his money to go where "money means nothing."

Personally, I'm rather tired of these superhero "future stories" where everyone is either buffed up or disabled and the world is in shambles. Is there one superhero cartoon out there that actually takes into account that the future may not be so bleak. I like the red sky effect, but move on.This episode was almost an exact duplicate of the Gargoyles episode "Future Tense", hence why it may seem familiar.

Did anyone like the signifigance of Karai killing Leo by literally stabbing him in the back? Good metaphor for their relationship. Also, remembering the old series, there's some irony in this seres' Shredder/Krang hybrid being killed by a drill.

[Fone Bone]

I don't think this future fits with the current turtle time-line. Firstly, no mention of Ultimate Draco's attack, It might have been considered insignificant if that wasn't the reason Don disappeared.
secondly, where would Shredder get Utrom slaves from? In "our" TMNT universe, they all left, and the "future" Shredder was building a transmat, so he couldn't have gone back to his home planet yet. Good point. But they COULD have come back to earth at some point. Frankly IF they come back to Earth again in the series I will be VERY worried as should Don. There is always the motivation to return to take the Red Utrom prisoner again. He might be considered too dangerous simply to just leave behind.


Then there's the fact Shredder taking over earth is seems inconsistant with "our" Shredder's motives, who wants to throw away his money to go where "money means nothing." People's motives can change over thirty years. There is also the possibility that OUR Shredder has not revealed his true motives to anyone else for fear they wouldn't go along with it at this stage. I'm not saying this is definately the future. I AM saying that nothing in the episode established that it is NOT.



This episode was almost an exact duplicate of the Gargoyles episode "Future Tense", hence why it may seem familiar. I noticed that. However no matter how good this episode is if you judge it alongside Future Tense it simply doesn't compare.Did anyone like the signifigance of Karai killing Leo by literally stabbing him in the back? Good metaphor for their relationship. Didn't realize that until you said it but good catch.

Also, remembering the old series, there's some irony in this seres' Shredder/Krang hybrid being killed by a drill.I would think so.

[Slane]

Perhaps this alternate/potential timeline should be treated like the Justice Lord universe from Justice League.

We know this timeline's Donatello left; his departyre was likely before Mike, Leo, and Raph got their "make-overs," so to speak, seeing as Mike didn't seem confused that our Don was surprised to see his arm missing, and it was while Splinter was still alive. Shredder must have made massive strides in his war during alternate-Don's absence, seeing as he was able to conquer the Utroms and build the massive transmat.

However, how was Shredder able to get the Utroms, and why would he need 30 years to construct the transmat? Perhaps something happened in this timeline that affected both the Utroms and their first transmat in New York City.

What if, during the Turtles' fight for Splinter against the Utroms way back in Season 1, the battle actually led to the destruction of the transmat? At that point, the Utroms would not have been able to make their escape from Shredder and would become enslaved.

Similarly, the Turtles never would have encountered the Fugitoid, eliminating outside interference in Shredder's pursuit of conquering Earth; I expect that the Turtles' visit with the Triceratons and Federation would lead them to come to Earth a la "Worlds Collide," and Shredder's forces would have difficulty combating that intergalatic warfare. Because the episode didn't even discuss the Triceratons or Federation, which would have been a massive battle even for the Shredder, I'm assuming that the Fugitoid arc simply never occurred.

I would also assume that the escalated war against the Shredder and the large number of fatalies would discouraged Splinter from going to the Battle Nexis a second time, therefore eliminating further references to Traximus and also Usagi. However, Splinter would still have gone to his first Battle Nexus, as it was before even the first episode.

If Donatello reflected on what his mistaken actions led to, in which his assumption that the Utroms were the enemy and his attempt at rescuing Splinter leading to the enslavement of peaceful creatures that were simply seeking to return home, he may have become very disillusioned. I've wanted to see the Donatello that tries to be a pacifist as he was sometimes portrayed in the comics; could that be what happened to him in this timeline, that he isolated himself from the rest of the world because he was just tired of fighting and leading to more death and destruction? Our Don, though saddened about the deaths of his brothers, didn't react the same way, but he might not have yet seen what his alternate-persona saw.

Also, for some reason, Don's absence really affected Mikey the most negatively; Raph and April are euphoric to see him (loved seeing Raph's hug), Leo seems pleased, but Mike seems really angry. Mike has a close relationship to Splinter, so perhaps he is angry with Don for abandoning for that reason; however, Leo is just as close if not closer, so that is likely not the reason. Mike is very close to Don, so perhaps he knows more about why Don left and is really disappoined in his brother.

[Sharklady]

Everyone who enjoyed this ep is advised to check the thread about it on the 'General Animation Discussion' board. Sam Regal, the guy who voices Donatello, left a short 'thank you' post there.

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=136676