C&C - Fullmetal Alchemist - "The Philosophers Stone" [1/1]

[The Landstander]

:) --> ;)
:shrug: <-- :sad:

Equal exchange.

[bluedeucedodge]

Finally!! It has been too long without a new FMA episode. God I hope that this episode isn't as dark as the last one.

[NickWhiz1]

Firing squad, eh? He deserved worse :shrug:

And look who arrives at the wrong time but Ms. Rockbell...Man, Winry picked a bad time to come around.

...Check that, a really bad time to come around. Me senses bad things.

Barry! And Winry is in trouble! What will Ed do with only one arm?!

[poncho]

Executed without a trial. What a great state. =P

[CryptiniteDemon]

Oh my god. They made the woman's voice too deep.:mad:

Now I'm gonna be one of those whiners who *****es about the differences between the Japanese and English versions. I hate myself now.

[SirLemming]

This lady combines the vocal style of Conan O'Brien's Martha Stewart with the creepiness of Conan O'Brien's Michael Jackson.

[PaQ]

Not bad so far, I love how watching it a second time around really makes certain subtle moves more noticeable. Good voice for the delivery person... :p

[Fatneck]

So, going by her deep voice and fridge truck I take it that woman is the serial killer in drag?

[NickWhiz1]

OK, that was a neat trick, using the screw to scratch out a circle to break the chains. Clever.

ZOMG, they kept Fuhrer! Gaspo.

...and now, it's time for Ed to do his manly duty and buy Winry whatever she wants :sweat:

[TigeronStarfire]

A cross-dressing Jimmy Kudo gone homicidal? I guess the murders got to him. ^_^;;

[Youko Recca]

Well, he's still being called the Fuhrer. So now there's no confusion between King's name and title.

Barry the Chopper sounded good after he was done faking, but his act should have been obvious. Here anyway. Not to mention he looked more feminine than I remembered.

[SirLemming]

Martha Stewart, Michael Jackson, and Jimmy Kudo all rolled into one = deadly butcher.

[CryptiniteDemon]

Does anyone else just love the ending theme song for this show? For some reason it puts a very weird feeling inside of me the first 10 seconds.

It's so hard not to spoil the series when I've seen the whole thing. And stuff is so much clearer the second time through. This episode is full of foreshadowing you'd never notice until a second watch through.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm going crazy. I need someone to discuss the whole series with. Anyone know a dedicated FMA board? I need it.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Interesting episode, and it was ironic that while Ed was looking for Nina's killer he met him, and didn't realize it. That Scar fellow looks like an interesting character, and well, it was an all around good episode. Not as dark as last episode, but still pretty rough.

[snooze]

Does anyone else just love the ending theme song for this show? For some reason it puts a very weird feeling inside of me the first 10 seconds.

It's so hard not to spoil the series when I've seen the whole thing. And stuff is so much clearer the second time through. This episode is full of foreshadowing you'd never notice until a second watch through.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm going crazy. I need someone to discuss the whole series with. Anyone know a dedicated FMA board? I need it.

Yeah. I keep finding this with a lot of shows I watch a second and third time. There were lots of little details in Witch Hunter Robin I missed first time around. Ghost in the Shell has been rewatched enough times that I've picked up a lot, but still pick up little bits and pieces here and there.

[Sandoz]

The delivery girl's "giveaway" voice didn't bother me, as she was supposed to be a suspicious character to begin with.

Another dark episode, but not as terribly depressing as the last (because yeah, that's hard to top). I'm glad to see Winry's back, and Hughes' proud father routine is cute.

[poncho]

Does anyone else just love the ending theme song for this show? For some reason it puts a very weird feeling inside of me the first 10 seconds.
IMO, the first two ending themes of FMA are very excellent. I've got MP3s of both.

[Wolfie~Giri]

Mustangs voice is soo familiar...like Yana from YYH.

That was disturbing and painful...glad they found that killer..at least that's a look on the bright side.

[Mr. Pedro]

Freaky, freaky stuff. I kinda figured that the manly-sounding woman (who was in fact a dude) was slicing people up as soon as Winry saw the truck (a fine place to store bodies). The showdown in the slaughter house was a nice mix of fun and disturbing ("Psycho" was all I thought of during that fight).

BTW, did they shoot Tucker on a rocking horse? That's what I thought it looked like.

[lheiskell]

Does anyone else just love the ending theme song for this show? For some reason it puts a very weird feeling inside of me the first 10 seconds.

It's so hard not to spoil the series when I've seen the whole thing. And stuff is so much clearer the second time through. This episode is full of foreshadowing you'd never notice until a second watch through.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm going crazy. I need someone to discuss the whole series with. Anyone know a dedicated FMA board? I need it.***Cough**Cough***
http://communitydev.funimation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

The ending theme is on the Fullmetal Alchemist Soundtrack that's included in the Metal Starter Box.

[Chosen Raven]

A good, yet very creepy, episode. Heh, I was right about Tucker getting the firing squad. Sweet. It's too bad Al stopped Ed from killing Barry. Ah well, he's gonna get the firing squad too I'll bet...or another form of execution. Still, I'll be extremely miffed if this turns out to be another "don't kill no matter what" anime.

[poncho]

Still, I'll be extremely miffed if this turns out to be another "don't kill no matter what" anime.
LOL. (Seriously)

[shany94a]

I forget how young Ed is - he has tremendous power and potential, but seeing him so badly shaken after a truly frightening encounter with a serial killer, well, it hit home that he's still just a kid. Anbody would get freaked out by such an experience, even somebody with a powerful metallic arm.

[Jarmyn]

Barry the Chopper is a Jack the Ripper ripoff.

[Dark Soul]

Barry the Chopper a serial killier in drag who has become a murderer instead of a detective. He hopped the other side of the fence I supose. The no kill routine typical. Other than that I'm interested in the next episode.

[Fatneck]

Barry the Chopper is a Jack the Ripper ripoff. Winry is a prostitute? I knew it!

[Pepperidge]

] The ending theme is on the Fullmetal Alchemist Soundtrack that's included in the Metal Starter Box.
Only the SHORTENED VERSION!

[lheiskell]

Only the SHORTENED VERSION! <hint>In due time.</hint>

[Zyzzybalubah]

A cross-dressing Jimmy Kudo gone homicidal? I guess the murders got to him. ^_^;;
HAHAHAHA My thoughts exactly. :D
I can not explain what a great addition this show has been to Saturday Adult Swim. It's mature, it's fun, it's dramatic, I love it!! Haha I swear, that one guy who kept hitting on that Serial Killer must have been an idiot if he couldn't hear that voice. :)

I swear, that must have been a dramatic entrance for the Al and Ed's friend visiting. :D I loved how Ed's metal arm was cut off and how he used Alchemy to break out of the locks.

[Lachesis]

I forget how young Ed is - he has tremendous power and potential, but seeing him so badly shaken after a truly frightening encounter with a serial killer, well, it hit home that he's still just a kid. Anbody would get freaked out by such an experience, even somebody with a powerful metallic arm.

That's what I love about this show. Nobody's perfect. Ed's fallible, and he knows it. All the characters get to be so genuine in their reactions, and get the time to actually react to the events that happen.

[Juu-kuchi]

Quite an episode. The serial murderer arc is now over, and now Ed after being exposed to such evil now has to contend with new problems and such. I wonder how his youthful idealism and willing to do what is right will eventually be drained and make him cynical to the reality of his world.

That and Alphonse acting as a foil or restraint to Ed. Someday he won't be there to restrain Ed if anything like this happens again.

All in all, I can't wait to see what happens next.

[PickHut]

Bouncing from one traumatizing event to another, they seriously can't catch a break:sweat: . And poor Winry got involved in this one. I'm surprised at how quickly she recovered afterwards, though, she's probably just hiding it. And I guess we know why Al's not taking this as hard as Ed due to that cold armored body of his.

Anywho, I give The Philosopher's Stone a B+.

[Timmay]

He didn't say winly did he.. god no. Her voice is off.. and Barry as a woman sounded authentic in the original.

[Kryptonian]

I'm surprised Winry recovered from her kidnapping so fast. I'm surprised he was able to use Alchemy without being able to see from behind, that was great. After losing their mom then Ed losing two of his limbs and Al his whole body trying to bring her back.

Then finding out what that Tucker guy did, (who was her father) to his own wife (and lying about it), Nina and Alexander. And after they had gotten to know her and felt as if she was their own little sister, this happens. What could be waiting for them in the next episode, I know eventually there'll be some trouble from that guy with the shades and X scar in the middle of his forehead. And especially when they find out he was the one behind Nina and Alexanders murder. The voice acting from Ed during emotional moments, has really been fantastic, and this also was an enjoyable episode as well.

[lostrune]

Happy New Year!

1. That officer guy sure acts funnie! :D

2. Is that delivery guy gay?..............

2b. Can't believe they didn't see that coming. Look for the Adam's apple, fools! :sweat:

3. Using the air-conditioned truck and State Alchemist mess hall gossip to avoid the checkpoints? :shrug:

4. Sure, Ed, just worry about yourself. Forget that Winry was traumatized too, and forget that your brother Al took a stab from you (harmless but it's the thought that counts). It's all about looking out for #1. :)

5. Fuhrer King Bradley = name overkill. :p


Quite an episode. The serial murderer arc is now over, and now Ed after being exposed to such evil now has to contend with new problems and such. I wonder how his youthful idealism and willing to do what is right will eventually be drained and make him cynical to the reality of his world.
Maybe he'll develop 7 different personalities to blame, one of which is a woman (like that gay killah). :D

[CryptiniteDemon]

He didn't say winly did he.. god no. Her voice is off.. and Barry as a woman sounded authentic in the original.

Yeah, in the anime version it sounded like a woman. You couldn't tell at all. So when you finally saw the freezer truck, you were like OH MY GOD IT"S HER!

[Demonic Raven]

I was thinking of Suzaku in drag more than Jimmy Kudo in drag. I guess the evil voice was what brought that up. :sweat:

That was a very powerful fight scene though. The fear in Ed was what made it great. Once again, we have him crying toward the end. I'm going to venture a guess and say we will be seeing that alot for here on out.

Ed is still a state alchemist, correct? So here's a question: What's it take to get fired? Jeez! :p

Anyway....9/10

[echocharlie]

Great episode! Can't wait for the next one.

The voices were pretty good. I didn't quite understand that Ed was leaving the State Alchemists in that scene where he returned his watch to Mustang. That part could have been clearer. I was wondering where Al was during this whole mess. Also it's not clear what Al's role is right now. He seems to be tagging along a lot with the State Alchemists for someone who isn't part of them. And he gets sent first into a hostage situation? Jeez, can't imagine any other peace keeping organization sending a civilian into that situation. :)

[True Noir]

Very great episode indeed. The emotions that Ed were showing when he was fighting. That's stuff you usually wouldn't see in an anime. I think the dubbing was great. Now, Al and Ed are really determined to find that stone. I can't wait for next week's.

Overall: A+

[Vagrant]

The no kill routine typical. Other than that I'm interested in the next episode. Why is not killing a suspect either bad or unusual? Ed was barely holding his own, he was lucky to get out of there alive.

My impression of this world is the Rule of Law applies. Unless the suspect or the inquiry threaten a higher-up, criminals are to be caputred and given Due Process.

For many reasons, very few Alchemists appear to be truly good people of sound mind. Barry was quite with the work of the state alchemists. I wouldn't have any business with an alchemist and I wouldn't dare cross the path of a state alchemist.

[Riza Hawkeye]

The voices were pretty good. I didn't quite understand that Ed was leaving the State Alchemists in that scene where he returned his watch to Mustang. That part could have been clearer. I was wondering where Al was during this whole mess. Also it's not clear what Al's role is right now. He seems to be tagging along a lot with the State Alchemists for someone who isn't part of them. And he gets sent first into a hostage situation? Jeez, can't imagine any other peace keeping organization sending a civilian into that situation. :) Ed was upset with the military's handling of the Tucker situation and the fact that he was ordered to organize Tucker's work only made things worse. When Ed told Roy he wanted to do his own investigation into the serial murderer without finishing the tasks he was ordered to do Roy was pretty much like, if you want to be selfish and do whatever you want give up your watch (effectively relinquishing his State Alchemist title).

Al is not any ordinary cizilian and even though he may not be a State Alchemist he does seem to be given special privileges and it's not exactly stated why, but I think Roy may have something to do with that. Al intervening in this situation may have had more to do with Ed being involved. Do you really think Ed was going to listen to anyone else? He would have killed Tucker in the last episode if it wasn't for Al.

[Chosen Raven]

Why is not killing a suspect either bad or unusual? Ed was barely holding his own, he was lucky to get out of there alive.

What some of us are worried about is FMA becoming an anime that trys to "teach" us that killing is wrong no matter what(whether it's self defense or to save the lives of others). I just hope the characters are willing to kill if the need arises.

[poncho]

What some of us are worried about is FMA becoming an anime that trys to "teach" us that killing is wrong no matter what(whether it's self defense or to save the lives of others). I just hope the characters are willing to kill if the need arises.
Don't worry. I don't remember what the final verdict on killing is (if there is one at all), but it's not nearly as glib as that.

[Riza Hawkeye]

What some of us are worried about is FMA becoming an anime that trys to "teach" us that killing is wrong no matter what(whether it's self defense or to save the lives of others). I just hope the characters are willing to kill if the need arises. I wouldn't say this anime does this. There are times when characters kill in self defense and characters kill to accomplish their desires. Some characters will show regret for what they do, while some won't. Ultimately this show does not try to 'teach' us that.

[Chosen Raven]

Don't worry. I don't remember what the final verdict on killing is (if there is one at all), but it's not nearly as glib as that.
I wouldn't say this anime does this. There are times when characters kill in self defense and characters kill to accomplish their desires. Some characters will show regret for what they do, while some won't. Ultimately this show does not try to 'teach' us that.
Well that's good. I can watch this show in peace now.:D

[Mog]

Tiny spoiler, but spoiler none-the-less, about the no killing thing:
If Roy torching entire city blocks by himself in the previous war (Kishivar?) is a way to preach non-killing, I don't know what is.

[Tien85]

After the emotionally sad episode shown last, this episode was a great and welcomed change. Really enjoyed this episode. Especially one hand Ed. When I first saw the delivery person, I thought the voice was kinda manish, so I thought either Funimation is running out of female actors or something was up. Well, sure enough I was right, something was up, so I guess this was kinda a case of Dude looks like/wants to be a lady :D . Really neat how Ed was able to do a Alchemist symbol, and using the chains and even nothing to make two metal staffs. This show is getting better and better with each episode, can't wait to see how it continues, hope to see the movie here in the US soon too, heck if they can bring Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, and Inuyasha movies (Inu should be in theaters :anime: ) then they can put FMA in theaters or on DVD too.

[Mr_Millions]

A great episode. Though I'm left wondering why Comcast marks this show as "Family Entertainment".

Another thing: What's so bad about not killing people? It's a noble venture to try to avoid unlawful death. Unpalatable as it is, everyone deserves due process. To take power into one's own hands simply because one can is fascism.

I like that this show changes up the standard family dynamic: the younger caring for the elder.

I love this show.

[Chosen Raven]

Another thing: What's so bad about not killing people? It's a noble venture to try to avoid unlawful death. Unpalatable as it is, everyone deserves due process. To take power into one's own hands simply because one can is fascism.

I'm talking about the "don't kill no matter what" philosophys of anime's like Trigun. I'm talking about killing in self-defense or to protect others. If someone is about to kill innocent people, and the only way to stop them is by killing him, it's not only right, but a good thing to kill that person. It's not only unnoble to not kill in this situation, it's murderous.

[Vagrant]

A great episode. Though I'm left wondering why Comcast marks this show as "Family Entertainment".
I wonder that myself.
Another thing: What's so bad about not killing people? It's a noble venture to try to avoid unlawful death. Unpalatable as it is, everyone deserves due process. To take power into one's own hands simply because one can is fascism. Well said.

I'm talking about the "don't kill no matter what" philosophys of anime's like Trigun. I'm talking about killing in self-defense or to protect others. If someone is about to kill innocent people, and the only way to stop them is by killing him, it's not only right, but a good thing to kill that person. It is apparent that whole message of Trigun went right over your head.

I think the point of the Anime is that Vash needed to find a balance, not that violence dosen't slove anything.

Vash was attempting to keep the memory of an ideal world alive, hoping not to repeat the mistakes that forced the migration from Earth. It is perfectly understandable, if somewhat naive.

Now what is appropriate in 'self-defense' or 'defense of others'? Killing an unarmed hostage taker, suspects having 'accidents' in custody, torture, summary executions, lynchings, razing whle cities of 'undesirables' who threaten the status quo?

Where on the slippery slope do you think we shoud stop? You tell me.

It's not only unnoble to not kill in this situation, it's murderous. Once again, I'm not sure how your philosophy would have served Ed in this situation. He is a boy, and I doubt he has the time to draw transmutation circles with freaky dude swinging a cleaver at his head.

Apparently Barry was stopped, without further death. Al's decision produced the desired results. Winry is safe; one perp is in custody; no more dead women.

You do realize that Einstein was a pacifist...

[Sketch]

Great episode. Very powerful. Jerry Jewel did a good job with that character. Suprising infact. I'd say FUNimation may have their Haku (a little too husky though, it'd work better than Eric Vale at least).

If that didn't prove this is Adult Swim material... (or last week's episode for that matter). I don't know what does.

[Vallen Valiant]

Interesting topic...

I guess the question is if killing in general should be encouraged as a method to disposed of undesirables?

To kill Barry on the spot would be 'just' if he would be let off otherwise. (i.e. there is no justice system, essentially lawless frontier-town style.)

To kill Barry on the spot would be 'understandable' if the individual found the life of others to be at risk otherwise. (i.e. Barry was about to cut someone's head off.)

To kill Barry accidentality in a frenzy of cleavers while protecting one's own life is 'expected'.

To kill Barry after he is subdued and defenseless, because you hate his guts, is 'anarchy'.

I live in a country with laws. I am pretty sure most of you out there are too. The reason why laws exist is so it could make tough choices that no normal individuals are suppose to make. Like who lives and who dies. It isn't so simple, that someone who killed a human should be killed in return.

Watch more of Fullmetal Alchemist, and you will understand. They will talk about guilt, about life as a soldier, orders, and what exactly is the worth of a human life in comparison to another...

[Chosen Raven]

It is apparent that whole message of Trigun went right over your head.

I think the point of the Anime is that Vash needed to find a balance, not that violence dosen't slove anything.

Trigun's message didn't go over my head in the least. In fact, I thought it was kinda obvious. When Vash finally does kill someone(someone who actually wants to die and is trying to kill Vash's friends to force him to kill him), he goes into a state of depression. He only comes out of it when he "realizes" that what he did was a mistake and he can choose to never do it again.

Vash was using violence to solve things from the get go. The anime wasn't stating that Vash needed to find a balance between violence and non-violence. The debate was between killing and not killing, and it sure as heck didn't say Vash needed to find a balance for that.

But, whatever. You can have the last word on this. I don't wanna turn this into a Trigun thread.

Now what is appropriate in 'self-defense' or 'defense of others'? Killing an unarmed hostage taker, suspects having 'accidents' in custody, torture, summary executions, lynchings, razing whle cities of 'undesirables' who threaten the status quo?

Where on the slippery slope do you think we shoud stop? You tell me.

Allright, I'll tell you. Some of the things you listed (namely the first two) are accidents and obviously politicaly based so I'm not going to get into them. Torture isn't killing, and I'm against it 100% of the time. As for executions? I am for capital punishment. After a fair trial, of course. I don't believe that once we have someone subdued, we should take them behind a building and shoot them. I'm curious as to what you mean by "undesirables"(and in what context). I truly believe there is a time to kill. It's never pretty, but sometimes it has to be done. In crisis situations, we have to go by our own judgement. Remember, regardless of law, some people will kill others for no or trivial reasons. It is up to those that believe in law and order to stop those who try to kill innocents. Even if it means killing the killer.

Once again, I'm not sure how your philosophy would have served Ed in this situation. He is a boy, and I doubt he has the time to draw transmutation circles with freaky dude swinging a cleaver at his head.

Apparently Barry was stopped, without further death. Al's decision produced the desired results. Winry is safe; one perp is in custody; no more dead women.

It doesn't bother me that Barry was captured(going by what happened to Tucker, Barry is going to get his anyway). What bothered me was that the show seemed to be going in a "don't kill no matter what" direction. I know different now, so it doesn't bother me.

You do realize that Einstein was a pacifist...
Sorry, but you're only partially right. In his younger days he was definitely a pacifist. But when Germany started to re-arm and take on a more militaristic culture, Einstein abandoned his pacifism and encouraged Europe to arm itself(much to the annoyance of his one-time fellow pacifists). He realized that to take a pacifist stance would simply lead to Hitler conquering most of Europe. The pacifist approach is necessary and appropriate sometimes. Othertimes it'll do nothing but allow innocents to be slaughtered and give evil free reign to do what ever it wants. Depends on the situation.

Oh, and here's something interesting: Ghandi's not as pacifist as many think. Sure, he's against killing, but he's not against using violence to protect yourself. In fact, he once encouraged someone to by a gun. He told them that if they were attacked, they should try to shoot the attacker in the arm or the leg. Just a little fun-fact there.

I don't hold it against you or anything, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the irony of having a debate on killing with someone with the user-name of Hunter-Killer. :p

Dang, I'm tired of this debate already. Stupid ADD.

[Scirel]

Just some clarification, or asking for spoilers, I guess.

Is Al a state Alchemist too? Or does he become one later?

[Shredder]

Just some clarification, or asking for spoilers, I guess.

Is Al a state Alchemist too? Or does he become one later?
Al's not a state alchemist since he never finished the test.

He never does become one, mainly because he and Ed didn't want everyone to find out about his unusual transmutation and Ed being one is enough for both to get access to the library and other benefits of being a state alchemist.

[Yash]

It was refreshing to hear Jimmy Kudo's voice back on Adult Swim, at least. The irony, Winry is voiced by Rachel's VA.

9/10.

[MeggieMay]

It was refreshing to hear Jimmy Kudo's voice back on Adult Swim, at least. The irony, Winry is voiced by Rachel's VA.

9/10.No Rachel's VA, Colleen Clinkenbeard, is doing Rose and Riza Hawkeye's voices, as well as being one of the two ADR directors on FMA. Caitlin Glass is doing Winry (ANN says she's done miscellaneous voices on Case Closed).

[Samurai]

What I like is the sneaky dark nature of the show. I mean, to an average person, their first impression of this show would be, "oh this is one of those light-hearted shows." But as you watch an episode, boom, it becomes all dark. I like the sneakiness of it...

[Beat]

Switching tones and keeping the action high is what this show is all about. In essence, it's the anti Tom Goes to the Mayor. This week's episode is no different, and judging by the expression of the guy with the messed up arm, the whole murder arc is far from over.

[shoujoaifan]

It certainly does have that way of drawing someone in.

BTW, does anyone know when exactly the anime series splits off the manga? I've been reading the manga the past episodes have been based on. (When sneaking peaks ahead when I become weak and can't resist :sweat: Damn, between that, and reading character bios off of www.wikipedia.com (http://www.wikipedia.com/) , I really need to stop before I ruin the whole series for myself like I did with the S2 finales for JL and TT :sweat::2.0).

Is it safe to read the manga after that point, or do they mix and match plotpoints from the manga into a mismash after that point? Should I just wait until the TV series is done first anyway? (I can wait, but ironically it'll take us about a year to get through it, since we going at the same 1-per-week like in Japan.)

Thanks!

[Demonic Raven]

Watching the encore, I have to give further props to Jerry Jewel. He did the womanly voice surprisingly well, I didn't quite notice it before.

[Sanwich]

Watching the encore, I have to give further props to Jerry Jewel. He did the womanly voice surprisingly well, I didn't quite notice it before.Ditto that. He's got a lot of range - able to play a teen detective, short-tempered redhead, and psycho killer equally well. That's kind of scary, actually. ;)

[echocharlie]

It was fairly obvious to me that it was a man playing a woman. Even with only 1 or 2 lines in that role, the "lady's" voice was a little too husky. But I agree that it was a superb acting job.

[Inkan1969]

I bet Ed was thinking, "Where's Jodie Foster when you really need her?" :)

[Vagrant]

Trigun's message didn't go over my head in the least. In fact, I thought it was kinda obvious. When Vash finally does kill someone(someone who actually wants to die and is trying to kill Vash's friends to force him to kill him), he goes into a state of depression. He only comes out of it when he "realizes" that what he did was a mistake and he can choose to never do it again.

Vash was using violence to solve things from the get go. The anime wasn't stating that Vash needed to find a balance between violence and non-violence. The debate was between killing and not killing, and it sure as heck didn't say Vash needed to find a balance for that.

But, whatever. You can have the last word on this. I don't wanna turn this into a Trigun thread. Thank you.


Alright, I'll tell you. Some of the things you listed (namely the first two) are accidents and obviously politically based so I'm not going to get into them. Torture isn't killing, and I'm against it 100% of the time. As for executions? I am for capital punishment. After a fair trial, of course. I don't believe that once we have someone subdued, we should take them behind a building and shoot them. I'm curious as to what you mean by "undesirables"(and in what context). Barry was clearly an undesirable by most civilized standards, but what about political fighters, like our train hijacker, or freedom fighters. Are they undesirables who deserve what's coming to them? What of the people who peaceably oppose the good Fuhrer on purely humanistic grounds? Are they undesirables as well?


I truly believe there is a time to kill. It's never pretty, but sometimes it has to be done. And our enemies see it as something that has to be done as well. Who's right?

I wish people can dispose of this notion that violence of any kind can be executed without blowback. Even if violence or killing is used to dispatch a ax murderer on a rampage, there are negative consequences for all involved that go far beyond the execution of the act.

The perpetrator is dead, he isn't contemplating his actions or dealing with consequences, the executor, and society at large is dealing with the consequences of their actions.

Both killing and violence against other humans is wrong in all circumstances, however, as long as humans live in an unenlightened state humans will have some need to defend themselves. Therefore, until the human race reaches a state of enlightenment, violence as self-defense is a necessary evil.

But, as of late, I've been finding such justifications increasingly problematic. With the amount of destruction at our disposal, human society is less able to indulge in rationalizations of violence as a tool to serve our own ends.
In crisis situations, we have to go by our own judgment. Remember, regardless of law, some people will kill others for no or trivial reasons. It is up to those that believe in law and order to stop those who try to kill innocents. Even if it means killing the killer.


It doesn't bother me that Barry was captured(going by what happened to Tucker, Barry is going to get his anyway). What bothered me was that the show seemed to be going in a "don't kill no matter what" direction. I know different now, so it doesn't bother me.


Sorry, but you're only partially right. In his younger days he was definitely a pacifist. But when Germany started to re-arm and take on a more militaristic culture, Einstein abandoned his pacifism and encouraged Europe to arm itself(much to the annoyance of his one-time fellow pacifists). He realized that to take a pacifist stance would simply lead to Hitler conquering most of Europe. The pacifist approach is necessary and appropriate sometimes. Other times it'll do nothing but allow innocents to be slaughtered and give evil free reign to do what ever it wants. Depends on the situation. One other aside: Einstein and many of his fellow scientists opposed dropping the atomic bombs on Japan. He and his fellows, as brilliant as they were, hatched the dragon and then tried to tame it. How ironic...


Oh, and here's something interesting: Ghandi's not as pacifist as many think. Sure, he's against killing, but he's not against using violence to protect yourself. In fact, he once encouraged someone to by a gun. He told them that if they were attacked, they should try to shoot the attacker in the arm or the leg. Just a little fun-fact there. A person can usually recover from a shot to the arm or leg.

I don't hold it against you or anything, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the irony of having a debate on killing with someone with the user-name of Hunter-Killer. It is just a debate.

Dang, I'm tired of this debate already. At least you have an excuse. I'm just plain lazy. :p

[Artimus Gigan]

I thought it was this way, trained soilders who take life already understand the value of it first..

therefore they understand the consiquences, however it's there job...

[Vagrant]

I thought it was this way, trained soilders who take life already understand the value of it first.. How so?

[bigddan11]

I finally saw this episode last Thursday, and I have to say if nothing else, then the ending negotiations and possible cliffhanger made this episode worth the wait. Now they've got free reigns to go and search for the Sorceror's Stone, but they've also got the man who made their friend explode from inside out after them.

[ClockStomper]

This show rocks. By looking at it, you'd think it was Inuyasha redux, but there's actual evolving character development and darker themes.

[Artimus Gigan]

How so?For example, US troops are told DON'T HELLMURDER VILLAGERS

unless of course they are armed and argessive, there by feel free to use your tank to defend yourself.

It's not like Halo to see who can get the most kills

[Vagrant]

For example, US troops are told DON'T HELLMURDER VILLAGERS I can go there, but out of respect for the forum, I won't.

I'm out.