Eh, is Ghost In The Shell putting in Anti-American messages?(spoilers)

[Artimus Gigan]

Not sure if this conflicts with the no politics rule


Ok in the episode Jungle Cruise(it hasn't aired on AS yet), I really seem to have a problem with this episode, now I've watched both movies so I was already familiar with GITS before this series started(infact the DVD of the movie was it's first printing). However jungle cruise's plot really seems to skew towards this: US big evil country full of badness, suckness, and corruption. First off it has to do with a serial killer who skins his victems alive, they show the dead epidermis free bodies, only thing is the serial killer is an ex-soilder Now you woudl think that war trauma would have caused this. However he does it out of habit, because during the war he was figthing in he fought in the army of The American Empire. The plan was for the american soilders to befriend native villagers and then betray them by skinning their dead bodies and displaying the corpses as an act to lower moral of the gurilla troops the american empire's troops were fighting with. First off this tactic makes no sense what-so-ever except just to see people being killed in a horrable way, second as proven with similar experiances that other armies did, stuff like this enerages the enemy and just makes them fight more. Ok so they have a serial kiiller ont he loose, the serial killer also has a past with Batou, Bataou was fighting on the side of another faction of soilders and came across this guy skinning people alive. He tried to kill him then, but couldn't, so this sets him up for revenge. Then enter the two guys from the Amerian Empire CIA, you can tell right away that these guys are manipulating lying scum(and real CIA agents don't act like that). They say they want to capture this serial killer, but actualy if Batou kills him the AE can wash it's hands of the matter. So they purposely lead Batou to the guy and when the Major and co. realise what the CIA guys are doing the crap hits the fan, and they get peeved at the CIA guys. Anyways eventualy the serial killer gets captured(not dead) and one of the CIA guys jokes about the whole matter, and then gets a punch laid on him.

I don't know this episode struck me as too political for it's own good, i rarely complaina bout this type of stuff considering the internet is full with much worse, or ami jsut mis-interpiting the moral of the epeisode?

[Starwind Amada]

Well, we do have the biggest military power in the world, so it's only natural for them to take a crack at us.

I think AS should change the title of this episode to "Richard Epcar's Awesome Emmy-Deserving Performance ...Cruise".

You forgot to mention that Marco skins his victims in the pattern of a t-shirt.

Yes, you're misinterpreting the episode. But who cares?

[Chris Wood]

Please. The world's most powerful nation is a natural choice for an enemy. For decades the Russians, Chinese, British, Arabs, etc. have been popular villains. It's only fair we get our turn in the spotlight.

Then enter the two guys from the Amerian Empire CIA, you can tell right away that these guys are manipulating lying scum(and real CIA agents don't act like that).

Don't be so sure. There's bad apples in every bunch, especially in that business.

[Artimus Gigan]

Please. The world's most powerful nation is a natural choice for an enemy. For decades the Russians, Chinese, British, Arabs, etc. have been popular villains. It's only fair we get our turn in the spotlight.



Don't be so sure. There's bad apples in every bunch, especially in that business.
I ment the majority have good intentions

[Chris Wood]

I ment the majority have good intentions

Probably, but they don't make interesting villains.

[Karl Olson]

Eh, it's a change of pace. It's arguably played out from a sci-fi perspective (Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut (http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html) is probably the most reasoned and intelligently satirical depiction of a dystopian America I've ever read anyway, so GitS' POV isn't as interesting IMHO) but it sets GitS apart from most of it's anime contemparies, most of which usually propose the UN or some derivitive there of ending up as world governing body, and maybe throw in some concept of an anti-UN force. GitS' POV a little slanted, maybe even a bit hackneyed if you want to compare to the creme de la creme works on the subject, but it's a different slant than usual and it's handled in a fairly solid manner. I've heard it crops up more later, so get used to it.

[delariean]

I'm just worried about the edits.....whew....bloody and damn good ep!

[Paul_Cousins]

Well I have read some of the reviews of future episodes of SAComplex, this combined with Ep 07, I get the feeling that it is not so much anti-U.S. but indirectly anti-war-on-drugs and they take the U.S. Government's war on drugs in South America to the extreme. These are not really spoilers, but the undercurrent feel I get from the SAComplex series.

[gopherwartz]

"Then enter the two guys from the Amerian Empire CIA, you can tell right away that these guys are manipulating lying scum(and real CIA agents don't act like that)."

I don't know what YOUR CIA friends are like but MY CIA friends act just like that...

:D

[MeggieMay]

Seeing that The American Empire seems to be the real name of the 2030 U.S. in the series, I took it to mean that the something had supposedly happened between now and then and the U.S. was no longer the same country it is currently.

I also kept in mind that the original manga the series is based on is from the late 1980s and the political set up for GitS:SAC could actually be a reflection of something that was going on then with Japan/U.S. relations then and not really tied into current political events.

[Paul_Cousins]

Seeing that The American Empire seems to be the real name of the 2030 U.S. in the series, I took it to mean that the something had supposedly happened between now and then and the U.S. was no longer the same country it is currently.

I also kept in mind that the original manga the series is based on is from the late 1980s and the political set up for GitS:SAC could actually be a reflection of something that was going on then with Japan/U.S. relations then and not really tied into current political events.True the originial GitS manga is more closely tied to the "Cold War" than the current "War on Terrorism".

[Kagetsu]

I've been waiting for this to come up. WARNING: I may use a word or two that is politcally incorrect
I saw a geat deal of American "jap" stereotypes from WW2 being reflected in this show. Do Japanese still think we "see" them this way? American "Empire"(clearly wrong at any time), the CIA guys Heavey accents, thick glasses and teeth, deep bows hiding a secret "stab you in the back" agenda, and the clearly Japanese names. This disturbed me more than anything in the show.
Even our movies have been trying to link war atrocities to secret government plans. It's very wrong but not unexpected. My political views are strong and my own, so I won't go any farther.

[Paul_Cousins]

I've been waiting for this to come up. WARNING: I may use a word or two that is politcally incorrect
I saw a geat deal of American "jap" stereotypes from WW2 being reflected in this show. Do Japanese still think we "see" them this way? American "Empire"(clearly wrong at any time), the CIA guys Heavey accents, thick glasses and teeth, deep bows hiding a secret "stab you in the back" agenda, and the clearly Japanese names. This disturbed me more than anything in the show.
Even our movies have been trying to link war atrocities to secret government plans. It's very wrong but not unexpected. My political views are strong and my own, so I won't go any farther.
Well considering one of the more laided back main characters, Batou, of GitS was a U.S. citizen, I was say that the U.S. stereotype is not completely there.

Also, guys, remember there are no saints in the GitS series, for example, our first introduction to Motoko in BOTH the original GitS manga and anime movie, shows her killing a diplomat in a very gruesome manner.

[Chris Wood]

[kagetsu]American "Empire"(clearly wrong at any time)

Not in the early 20th century, and there are some who rightly or wrongly worry about it today.

Even our movies have been trying to link war atrocities to secret government plans. It's very wrong but not unexpected.

I'm not sure why this is wrong. The most famous war atrocity of all time was in fact the product of a secret government plan.


By the way, this thread seems likely to get rather political very quickly.

[Tienshin]

By the way, this thread seems likely to get rather political very quickly.

In the context of Ghost in the Shell, that's okay. As long as people stay topical and no one starts soapboxing on irrelevant issues this topis is fine.

[Deadly Messiah]

Who cares if it does have anti-american stuff, if it is good, it is good.

Besides, you are acting like Americans don't put anti-whatevercountrywewantto in our movies. Look at Godzilla 1985 where they altered footage to make it look like the one Russian dude launched the missle instead of trying to deactivate it. Everyone does the same thing, don't worry about it.