Chuck Jones Overrated? Discuss

[Maxie Zeus]

In the November 11 Minneapolis Star-Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/stories/804/5076982.html), James Lileks observes that Chuck Jones is ... overrated?

The damn thing is behind a really annoying registration screen, so here's the relevant part of the column:

If I may digress and call hellfire down on my head: Chuck Jones -- animator for that classic "Kill the Wabbit" cartoon -- was great, but I'm beginning to sense he was a trifle overrated. (Pause; wait for lightning to cleave roof, strike me dead ... hmm. Well, we continue, then.) It's hard not to overrate someone so beloved and talented; the reputation just grows and grows until it's de rigeur to salaam at his talent, and heresy to point out the errors. Well, the Tom and Jerry cartoons he did were inexcusable. T&J cartoons exist for one purpose, and that's to see Jerry bury a hatpin six inches into Tom's haunch. There was a woeful insufficiency of cat poking in Jones' T&J cartoons, alas. And frankly, I've had it with that "Kill the Wabbit" number. I'm more impressed with the Barber of Seville number Jones did with Michael Maltese. Jones + Maltese was always brilliant. Jones alone wears on me after a while.

[Jave]

I don't find Chuck to be overrated, but some of his cartoons certainly are. "What's Opera Doc", is a very good cartoon, but I don't think it's Jones' best as some people claim it to be. I agree with the people that say "Rabbit of Seville" was much better.

"Now Hear This" is, IMO, quite bad. I find it hard to believe the cartoon was nominated for an Oscar. I didn't like the designs and animation style at all, and the backgrounds were pretty much non-existant.

The Jones T&J cartoons were in fact inferior to the Hanna-Barbera originals, specially in terms of stories, but they weren't that bad. In technical terms such as animation and direction they were very good.

Chuck deserves all the praise he gets for such masterpieces as "Duck Dodgers in the 24 1/2 Century", "Duck Amuck", "Feed the Kitty", the whole hunting trilogy, "Beanstalk Bunny", and many more. I also like most of his early stuff like the Sniffles cartoons and "Tom Thumb in Trouble" (who a lot of people seem to dislike). I also like the dark cartoons of Chuck Jones like "Angel Puss" and "Chow Hound".

[J. B. Warner]

I've always considered Chuck Jones to be the best director at Termite Terrace - but some people do tend to overlook the great achievements of Friz Freleng, Robert McKimson, Bob Clampett, Tex Avery, Frank Tashlin, and all the others, not to mention the other members of Jones' unit (Mike Maltese, Maurice Noble, Ken Harris, etc.) that really helped to make the Jones cartoons memorable. Jones was great, but he didn't do it alone.

[Speedy Boris]

I wouldn't consider Chuck Jones overrated at all. He's made some of my favorite classic cartoons ever, and he was the master at giving the characters subtle expressions and nuances.

I've heard it brought up that it was Jones's fault for making Daffy too snide and getting rid of his wackiness. To be fair, all three directors moved in this direction later on (McKimison, Jones, Freleng), and I don't see how you could say Jones was the worst offender when the Speedy/Daffy cartoons of DePatie/Freleng had some real meanspiritedness on Daffy's part.

[Steve Carras]

I don't find Chuck to be overrated, but some of his cartoons certainly are. "What's Opera Doc", is a very good cartoon, but I don't think it's Jones' best as some people claim it to be. I agree with the people that say "Rabbit of Seville" was much better.

"Now Hear This" is, IMO, quite bad. I find it hard to believe the cartoon was nominated for an Oscar. I didn't like the designs and animation style at all, and the backgrounds were pretty much non-existant.

The Jones T&J cartoons were in fact inferior to the Hanna-Barbera originals, specially in terms of stories, but they weren't that bad. In technical terms such as animation and direction they were very good.

Chuck deserves all the praise he gets for such masterpieces as "Duck Dodgers in the 24 1/2 Century", "Duck Amuck", "Feed the Kitty", the whole hunting trilogy, "Beanstalk Bunny", and many more. I also like most of his early stuff like the Sniffles cartoons and "Tom Thumb in Trouble" (who a lot of people seem to dislike). I also like the dark cartoons of Chuck Jones like "Angel Puss" and "Chow Hound".
It's heresy, or shall I say hare-reh-sy, but yeah, I think the WHAT'S OPERA DOC stuff is overrated in that one and later ones.

Truth though the did do some very good Roadrunners (1961's LICKETY SPLAT) and I DO like NOW HEAR THIS and NELLYS FOLLY and HIGH NOTE, which WAS a return to the "stuff comes to life" that gave Tashlin and Clampett their respective (Tash in 1937 with SPEAKING OF THE WEATHER & Clampett in 1940-41 with GOOFY GROCERIES, and that format goesd back to Harman-Ising) color debuts (music notes here).

But WHAT's..is dang overated and I never really saw it till 1976 and I always wondered what the fuss was about. Jones made some great and good stuff like THE BEE-DEVILED BRUIN and BEAR FOR PUNISHMENT with those bears, the Hubie and BErtie, the sinisterr humor stuff like CHOW HOUND & FRESH AIREDALE-and he even did some good Daffy and Bugs stuff thru 1953.


But his later cartoons are onedimensional in many ways..

[Steve Carras]

I wouldn't consider Chuck Jones overrated at all. He's made some of my favorite classic cartoons ever, and he was the master at giving the characters subtle expressions and nuances.

I've heard it brought up that it was Jones's fault for making Daffy too snide and getting rid of his wackiness. To be fair, all three directors moved in this direction later on (McKimison, Jones, Freleng), and I don't see how you could say Jones was the worst offender when the Speedy/Daffy cartoons of DePatie/Freleng had some real meanspiritedness on Daffy's part.
1.He's given sole credit for famous Warner Bros. shorts when Bob Clampett, Arthur Davis, Friz Freleng, Bob McKimson, Tex Avery and Frank Tashlin made some as well.Is the gambling Bug (McKImson, EARLY TO BET,1951) short somehow not as valid as WHAT'S OPER A DOC (euuuu) or the greedy Daffy shorts (see DAFFY DUCK: I WANT THAT CRAZY DUCK BACXK!) Heck, even his STAFF doesn'ty rate or warrant the same mentioN!!


2.You're right about Daffy's directors and the largely McKImson/Larriva/Lovy Directed mid to late 60s Daffy's are even worse (Jones and Michael maltese least gavce Daffy some good lines) and Friz on a few occasions went REALLY overboard to be fair more so even than did Chuck Jones _again the real low points were the mid post-Jones ones. I think still, that McKImson in the 50s,early 60s dikd some funny Daffy shorts though.

[JCorey3rd]

1.He's given sole credit for famous Warner Bros. shorts when Bob Clampett, Arthur Davis, Friz Freleng, Bob McKimson, Tex Avery and Frank Tashlin made some as well.
Who is claiming that Chuck Jones is the only Warner Bros director?

Is he overrated because someone else doesn't also make note of the other directors? And why are you paying any attention to such an ignorant fool?

Chuck is among select company. And he does get singled out during talks about animation directors. Why does he have the advantage? Because he lived long enough to be praised. he was around for the animation cell market to boom unlike Tashlin, Avery, Clampett, and McKimson - they died from the 70s to early 80s. Chuck was there to have documentaries made about him - Chuck Amuck and the PBS special. And was social enough that he made a good subject. He looked like a guy who made these cartoons. As much respect that I have for Friz (including a large collection of his signed cells), he looks like he sells industrial food processors.

What makes "What's Opera, Doc" an amazing cartoon is that it wasn't a special project. It was part of the yearly quota from Chuck's crew and he made it very special. And it didn't even get an Oscar nomination (Birds Anonymous won that year). It's earned it's following over the years.

And while Chuck's Tom and Jerry cartoons aren't the greatest, the characters had been played out by the time he landed the contract with MGM. And who knows what memos he received from the pinheads about what to do with the characters. There is no denying the greatness of Chuck's "Grinch that Stole Christmas."

[Sharpel007]

I agree with the last post its mainly due Chucks long life that he is the most singled out, for a similar comparison look at Frank and Ollie

Ask any Disney buff to name the Nine Old Men and 9 out of 10 will say Frank and Ollie first. Also like Chuck they stayed in view almost tilll the end, and are and where very nice down to earth people, who would regulary talk and be willing to do new stuff, just look at thier Cameos in both The Iron Giant and The Incredibles.

[Nick]

I've heard it brought up that it was Jones's fault for making Daffy too snide and getting rid of his wackiness. To be fair, all three directors moved in this direction later on (McKimison, Jones, Freleng), and I don't see how you could say Jones was the worst offender when the Speedy/Daffy cartoons of DePatie/Freleng had some real meanspiritedness on Daffy's part. What I find strange is that McKimson never really used Jones' post-1954 version of Daffy Duck until the Daffy/Speedy cartoons. Before those cartoons the closest he ever got to the Jones version was in "People Are Bunny".

I largly prefer Jones' earlier version of Daffy Duck much better, seen in cartoons like "Daffy Duck and the Dinosaur", "My Favorite Duck" and "Duck Amuck" over the one seen in "My Little Duckaroo" and "Ali Baba Bunny". :daffy:

[Jave]

What I find strange is that McKimson never really used Jones' post-1954 version of Daffy Duck until the Daffy/Speedy cartoons. Before those cartoons the closest he ever got to the Jones version was in "People Are Bunny".Don't forget "The Million Hare" and "Fast Buck Duck"

[Steve Carras]

I agree with the last post its mainly due Chucks long life that he is the most singled out, for a similar comparison look at Frank and Ollie

Ask any Disney buff to name the Nine Old Men and 9 out of 10 will say Frank and Ollie first. Also like Chuck they stayed in view almost tilll the end, and are and where very nice down to earth people, who would regulary talk and be willing to do new stuff, just look at thier Cameos in both The Iron Giant and The Incredibles.
I still thinkj that if say, McKimson (who died in either 1976 or 1977 at 66) had been alive today, he STILL would not have gotten due respect. And there are OTHER [to JCCorey3rd] carotons by other directors that deserve respect,including those of Art Davis and Bob McKimson and Bob CLampett..and Friz.

[anime fan]

i dont think chuck jones is overraited yes i gre with alote of people about those tom and jerry shorts.

and i do engoy loony tunes but his railey talked about christmas speshel based on the doctor zuess clasick how the grinch stoll christmas i think is amazingly done.

and even though its only an half hour christmas speshell i kinda like that more than looney tunes beacause he put so much more of his famus fashel expretion into that than all of those loony tunes cartoons he did.
you can watch it and know thats chuck jones straight away.

[JCorey3rd]

I still thinkj that if say, McKimson (who died in either 1976 or 1977 at 66) had been alive today, he STILL would not have gotten due respect. And there are OTHER [to JCCorey3rd] carotons by other directors that deserve respect,including those of Art Davis and Bob McKimson and Bob CLampett..and Friz.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I never said that only Chuck Jones cartoons deserve respect. Don't type me into an argument that I am not a part of. Seeing how we're talking about such a small number of directors, debating who is overrated and who is underrated is a pretty lame argument. We're not talking about the 1,000 players in the NFL this season or the 1,000s of players to have played pro baseball. We're talking about about a dozen men. If you enjoy the LT/MM cartoons and are more than a casual fan, you will have an appreciation for all of the directors during the Golden Age. These men are elite.

Maybe McKimson wouldn't get the same profile as the other directors if he lived, but that's mainly because he didn't set up his own company like Jones, Friz or Clampett or have his own imprint like Tex Avery had at MGM. He didn't seem to have a problem being a director of cartoons - he even worked for Friz's company. But McKimson has his fans. People like Taz and Foghorn Leghorn - and maybe they don't have his name on the tip of their tongues, but they enjoy his creations.

[Daniel P]

If I may digress and call hellfire down on my head: Chuck Jones -- animator for that classic "Kill the Wabbit" cartoon -- was great, but I'm beginning to sense he was a trifle overrated.This guy really knows what he's talking about. Chuck Jones wasn't the animator for that "Kill the Wabbit" cartoon (for God's sake, he couldn't even find the cartoon's name? This guy sure is qualified to write about Chuck Jones), he was the director. Nobody ever complains about a guy's animation and then say all of the cartoons he DIRECTED are overrated, especially when he didn't animate the cartoon he's talking about.




-Dan

[Fone Bone]

I like Chuck Jones a lot. He is my favorite Warner Bros. director. My favorite cartoons of his are One Froggy Evening, Duck Amuck, How the Grinch Stole Christmas, and Duck Dodgers in the 24 and a Half Century.

I liked his Tom and Jerry cartoons better than the Hanna/Barbera version.

[Steve Carras]

I like Chuck Jones a lot. He is my favorite Warner Bros. director. My favorite cartoons of his are One Froggy Evening, Duck Amuck, How the Grinch Stole Christmas, and Duck Dodgers in the 24 and a Half Century.

I liked his Tom and Jerry cartoons better than the Hanna/Barbera version.Well, I like Friz (pre-1960s largely0< the two Bobs (yes, Clampett,includied-his absence notwithstanding from THE BUGS BUNNY/ROAD RUNNER MOVIE), and Robert MJcKimson.Too bad about Daffy in those shorts.

WEhat about Davis, Avery,etc. I thought Jone screwed Bob bigtime. Steve Worth once said that he'd claw his eyes out than "watch that frog picture"(1998, alt.animation.warner-bros). I like Chuck Jone's RABBHIT RAMPAGE (where BUSG is in Daffy's role just to see how it feels and the earlier Three bEars, Charlie Dog and Hubie Berties for instance (the "mice tricking the cat into thinking he is some other animal;": in those first few is a hoot).

[Fone Bone]

I don't know the names of all the cartoons or even most of them. All I know is that if Jones' name is in the credits I'll probably laugh. I love how Wile E. Coyote hangs in mid-air and blinks twice before he falls off the cliff and the cloud of dust that accompanies him when he lands.

[candy17]

Is Chuck Jones overrated?

Coming from a classic cartoons fan, I'd say...yes. Yes, he is.

But like another post says (to paraphrase) "If someone thinks GI Joe is great, then it has a place." meaning that if classic cartoon fans think Chuck Jones is great, then he is.

I definitely think he's influential to comedy (be it animated or live-action), but Chuck did have his share of bad cartoons just like any director of animation.