Is this what Cartoon Network considers to be "Professionalism" (Big O Canceled)

[Paul_Cousins]

It's official, Big O is canceled. But I am not here to complain about Big O being canceled, it is the backhanded way in which those at Cartoon Network choose to inform it's anime fans that Big O is cancel that I am annoyed about.

Here is the link: http://www.savebigo.com/savebigo/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10

A hand writen three-by-five card that probably cost less than a dollar, including postage... This is how Cartoon Network chooses to inform it's anime fans, not making an official announcement, but instead by sweeping it under the rug and hoping everyone forgets that Big O even exists; which is ironic considering that the main plot that the Big O series deals with is all about 'memories'.

Anyway, if this is what those at Cartoon Network consider to be professionalism to towards anime fans, if this is how low Cartoon Networks values it's anime fans, then I can take the money I have to spend elsewhere.

And about Big O itself, oh yes, it will return, it is a phoenix, it will rise from the ashes. And you guys at Cartoon Network better put more funding into the mailing department because you are about to experience a scaper style fan backlash.

[Evil & Lovin It]

YES! I say we burn Cartoon Netwrk to the ground and eat its soul, maybe then it will learn respect for Sir Santa of Claws.

Bwahahahaha!

[Rabi~en~Rose]

what?? this is for reals to? :( I wasn't really expecting them to renew it but this is a very rude way of saying its canned :(

[Beat]

Five bucks says this announcement appears on a card pretty soon.

[Karl Olson]

Five bucks says this announcement appears on a card pretty soon.

Yeah, now that it's been mentioned here and since we CN folks wander around here, yes, they'll likely throw it on a card. Or not. Might tick off Pierre ;)

[Discloner]

And about Big O itself, oh yes, it will return, it is a phoenix, it will rise from the ashes. And you guys at Cartoon Network better put more funding into the mailing department because you are about to experience a scaper style fan backlash.
I thought it was always a rule of thumb that today's networks don't usually announce the shows they cancel...because in the end that usually just bring anger in the first place.

At anyrate, I'm not suprised. The lack of anything regarding a third season was the first warning sign that the show wasn't coming back, although I think everyone should be happier that it ended with an actual ending rather then the Cliffhanger it originally left off on.

And while I'd love to see thousands mailing CN over their anger...I highly doubt it'll 'overload' them as much as you say, as present in it seems a large portion of AS's fanbase doesn't much care for Anime.

[Paul_Cousins]

1. I thought it was always a rule of thumb that today's networks don't usually announce the shows they cancel...because in the end that usually just bring anger in the first place.

2. At anyrate, I'm not suprised. The lack of anything regarding a third season was the first warning sign that the show wasn't coming back, although I think everyone should be happier that it ended with an actual ending rather then the Cliffhanger it originally left off on.

3. And while I'd love to see thousands mailing CN over their anger...I highly doubt it'll 'overload' them as much as you say, as present in it seems a large portion of AS's fanbase doesn't much care for Anime.
1. If CN had actually openly stated that Big O is canceled, I would have still tried to get it back on the air, though, I would still respect them. But the way they have handled it, really has made me loss respect for them and has spurned my anime-otaku side into action.

2. Big O has been canned before and not all the Season 2 DVDs have been released yet, not to mention the S2 Big O Boxset, so CN doesn't even yet know how much money Big O is going to make them. But with CN only airing the actual ending once, it makes you wonder.

3. Sci-fi Channel thought something similiar about Farscape fans, they learned the hard way that they were wrong. :D

[Delthayre]

Well, I'm a but dissapointed, but unsurprised. It is a small relief to know with some certainty that I can stop waiting, but I would have liked to see a third season. I suppose I'm in part hoping that Konaka would actually do the courtesy of resolving the story in a third season rather than just providing a pretentious nothing for a finale as he did with season two.

Oh well, so it goes.

[Karl Olson]

Well, I'm a but dissapointed, but unsurprised. It is a small relief to know with some certainty that I can stop waiting, but I would have liked to see a third season. I suppose I'm in part hoping that Konaka would actually do the courtesy of resolving the story in a third season rather than just providing a pretentious nothing for a finale as he did with season two.

Oh well, so it goes.

Yeah, but virtually everything Konaka writes these days (certainly post-lain) is pretty pretentious. I don't think a 3rd season with him as head writer would have been any more intelligible than the 2nd season. It would likely be more Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead-style metaphor, assuming he didn't go into Texhnolyze-levels of over-visual storytelling instead. You either gotta like it or lump it, because I doubt that trend in his writing is going to reverse.

Anyway, no 3rd season kinda sucks, but atleast it's better than the original cliffhanger. Big O I and II make a complete story, more or less.

[jeffrey 228]

It's official, Big O is canceled. But I am not here to complain about Big O being canceled, it is the backhanded way in which those at Cartoon Network choose to inform it's anime fans that Big O is cancel that I am annoyed about.

Here is the link: http://www.savebigo.com/savebigo/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10

A hand writen three-by-five card that probably cost less than a dollar, including postage... This is how Cartoon Network chooses to inform it's anime fans, not making an official announcement, but instead by sweeping it under the rug and hoping everyone forgets that Big O even exists; which is ironic considering that the main plot that the Big O series deals with is all about 'memories'.

Anyway, if this is what those at Cartoon Network consider to be professionalism to towards anime fans, if this is how low Cartoon Networks values it's anime fans, then I can take the money I have to spend elsewhere.

And about Big O itself, oh yes, it will return, it is a phoenix, it will rise from the ashes. And you guys at Cartoon Network better put more funding into the mailing department because you are about to experience a scaper style fan backlash.
I best hope the Soccor mons are in revolt against anime once again, because that would really piss me off, and I am sick and tired of them trying to do this to us because they still think anime is porn crap, and that is just about gotten my head red hot.

[Killtacular]

Good.

Big O 2 ruined a great anime. I'm glad it's over.

[Paul_Cousins]

Good.

Big O 2 ruined a great anime. I'm glad it's over.
It's rude to kick something when it's down. Besides, this thread it not about Big O being canceled, but the way in which those at Cartoon Network have handled it.

[Legato B]

Because we all know a generic post card, which is most likely just a form letter, is definitely proof there'll be no third season. :rolleyes:

I don't really care either way, but until it's confirmed by a reliable source, I'll consider it still a possibility.

[Mynd Hed]

Good.

Big O 2 ruined a great anime. I'm glad it's over.
I wouldn't say "ruined"-- I can still watch my Season 1 DVDs and enjoy them as much as I ever did-- but Big O definitely jumped the shark when it was resurrected for the second season, and I'm also glad that we won't have to witness its further decline in a third season.

[Killtacular]

Alright then.

YES, this is what Cartoon Network considers "professionalism." Because it IS professional. This is what TV networks do. They only announce when shows are ending if the show is willingly coming to a close and has a final storyline that they can wrap stunts around.

You're just going to have to suck it up and DEAL WITH IT. Nickelodeon to this day forbids anyone from the Invader Zim staff from saying in any form of media that the show is cancelled.

You're (whoever got the postcard) lucky you got a response back talking about it. Few networks ARE willing to admit when they've unplugged a show. That's just how life is.

[Tienshin]

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything to be in an uproar about. Much less anything to indict Cartoon Network on in terms of "professionalism".

EDIT: beaten by Matt, but yeah. I agree with his sentiments 100%.

[kaine23]

Ouch, what a big suck.

[Behonkiss]

I can't see why this is so surprising to everyone. The show was pretty much wrapped up in Episode 26. Continuing the story left at the end wouldn't be that interesting.

And considering the drop in quality, I don't really see why anyone would want a 3rd season. This is why I'm not ranting about the lack of a 2nd season of Kikaider; I now know that it would likely turn out like the OVA.

[Paul_Cousins]

Alright then.

YES, this is what Cartoon Network considers "professionalism." Because it IS professional. This is what TV networks do. They only announce when shows are ending if the show is willingly coming to a close and has a final storyline that they can wrap stunts around.

You're just going to have to suck it up and DEAL WITH IT.
What is your problem. I'm serious, all you have posted on this thread is negative, negative, negative.

Really, lighten up. :)

Cartoon Network is acting like a spoiled child in the way they have handled this and this is why there are PR departments, to prevent situations like this.

I pity you for not being able to understand what I am saying, but you need to calm down some.

[Sheamon]

I don't really mind the show coming to an end as it went to a logical conclusion with episode 26. I don't think we need anymore. And frankly, yes, the show was better in the first season. The mystery is a big part of why it was so good and now that the mystery is solved I don't think a third season would have as much impact.

Edit: Just to add to my point, one of the things that draws me to anime (although I don't watch anywhere as much as I used to) is that they actually end, as opposed to far too many American shows that go on forever, until the storyline is destroyed (X-Files, Simpsons, too many to name). Big O is over. It resolved things in a pretty good way. Any additional episodes after the ending would weaken the whole, just like more Bebop episodes would weaken the high quality of that series.

[Youko Recca]

Matt has the habit of being real. It's real that a show in Big O's position would get canned. I don't personally like it but I'm not gonna ***** about it.

[Tienshin]

Okay. Quick note: a couple posts have been deleted or editted as they were veering into a place we don't need to go.

Please keep your posts topical and if you happen to disagree with someone then keep things civil. This goes for everyone.

[Rurouni Kenshin]

They canceled the show cause it didn't get the ratings, its not AS fault, besides did you guys really want more episodes of the show?

[the Amanda]

I don't understand at all how Cartoon Network is being unprofessional. Yes, it sucks when a show you like is cancelled, but I think you guys were treated with relative dignity. The thing you posted is quite polite and reasonable, most fans never get that. Ask fans of Zim, who (as Matt pointed out) never got an official declaration by Nick that the show was cancelled, lived in limbo as they trotted out a single half of an episode when they occasionally felt like it, and only got to see the last season if they had a rare premium channel (this is being rectified through DVDs -- but hasn't Big O been out on DVD for a while? ) Or even worse, shows that never get to finish their run because the networks pull them with little warning, much less an apology -- although I am not part of their fanbases, I'm sure there's some Firefly and Wonderfalls viewers who could back me up here. I'm sorry that a show you love so much got cancelled, but I'm actually rather impressed that CN took the time to write something for you guys. At least your show will live on, on DVD. :)

[Juu-kuchi]

I'm a bit disappointed. However even though Big O's S2 finale episode was messed up beyond belief, I still felt a sense of conclusion that was better there than at Episode 13.

Yeah it wasn't as good as season 1, but at least it was somewhat concluded in my own messed up mind of mine.

[Killtacular]

What is your problem. I'm serious, all you have posted on this thread is negative, negative, negative.Yeah, because it's not like this thread was negative when it started or anything. I mean just look at the first post, look at how happy and positively upbeat it is! Just overflowing with praise and grace.

Cartoon Network is acting like a spoiled child in the way they have handled thisMore positive comments! :) :) :)

If you want a sugar-coated answer, register at the AS.com forums and let SwimBuddha and the others condescend to you with half-truths and cover-ups. If you don't, then I don't know what you wanted from this thread, because this thread just seems like "Let's all get angry at CN! Everyone get your pitchforks!" otherwise.

I'm not doing it to be mean (er, besides my insult of the show itself at the beginning, which was not angry so much as it was satisfied), and I don't understand how a realistic viewpoint has to be construed as "negative."

[Killtacular]

How about the fact that Cartoon Network paid for a second season of Big O in the first place, and allowed the story to be finished? Is noone grateful for that?

[Beat]

I don't think it's the fact that it was cancelled, but how that it was announced, which is angering everyone.

But that's just my observation.

[Killtacular]

Plenty of people who have emailed Cartoon Network have gotten responses about shows not moving ahead for more seasons. See: Samurai Jack. If you want them to make a PR saying the show is cancelled, that's not even using common sense, and of course that won't happen.

[tucsoncoyote]

What is your problem. I'm serious, all you have posted on this thread is negative, negative, negative.

Really, lighten up. :)

Cartoon Network is acting like a spoiled child in the way they have handled this and this is why there are PR departments, to prevent situations like this.

I pity you for not being able to understand what I am saying, but you need to calm down some.I'm in agreement with you here Paul and yes this does lack the professionalism that is supposed to be handled by all animation companies. in fact now the real thing is that The Folks over here at AS and CN are learning is what some of us knew all along.. Namely Folks at animation Studios don't care about the fans. they don't care if you watch anime or not. they don't care if you watch Quality programming. And in fact You're right Paul, They really were very unprofessional in all this.(Like you stated, why didn't the PR department handle this? Were they Too Lazy to try? Or maybe they were more worried aobut Ratings and decided to put on the stupidest idea on the Planet (Namely Hockey Chicken- Which I might add is something Probably Matt W loves to enjoy. and you know I'm just pulling your leg there matt.)

but I agree here Paul all these folks need a to take a tranquilizer and Calm down. Maybe a good time out..

As for CN? Well they are indeed acting like a spoiled child.. sort of like that 61 year old Spoiled brat over at another company;) . But that's another story..)

:coyote:

[Dr Crocodile]

I'm just curious but why did people find Big O II SO much worse that Big O I? Is it because of the ending? It's not the first time I've come across someone with this opinion but nobody has really said why they hold this opinion.

[William C. Maune]

I don't see the problem here.

Many, if not most, networks don't even bother to say anything when a show is cancelled. Instead, new episodes just never arrive. I actually think it is actually cool that the network actually sent the person a unique, honest, handwritten response rather than some form letter, or even no response at all.

[Sampo]

I'm a bit disappointed. However even though Big O's S2 finale episode was messed up beyond belief, I still felt a sense of conclusion that was better there than at Episode 13.

Yeah it wasn't as good as season 1, but at least it was somewhat concluded in my own messed up mind of mine.Aye I also agree with this. CN went throught the trouble to get a "second season" to resolve the big cliff hanger, so we should be grateful about that. Also it was nice of them to send that person a hand written card instead of no response at all.

Oh well.

[PowerZord]

I'm just curious but why did people find Big O II SO much worse that Big O I? Is it because of the ending? It's not the first time I've come across someone with this opinion but nobody has really said why they hold this opinion.


Yeah i been wondering the same thing, I loved Big O II

[SSJPabs]

Matt you are truly the most mean-spirited person I have ever had the opportunity of having to read including the National Review. I don't know if that's an act online or if that's how you really are, but that doesn't mean you're wrong and in fact I agree with everything you originally said.

I don't see what cartoon network did that is so reprehensible or different than what other networks do. Most networks don't even announce it to viewers the shows just don't come back or are replaced in timeslot. I'm more upset about the back-seating of anime but again, whining about it would be a total waste of time and if I really cared enough, I would go out and rent or buy the stuff.

Anyway, Big-O is done, I am sad. If you want to get a new season up on the air, then go right ahead but I don't think I'm going to like where it goes from here. I'll probably write my OWN version of it and it might be as interesting (Eva-R anyone?).

[tucsoncoyote]

I don't see the problem here.

Many, if not most, networks don't even bother to say anything when a show is cancelled. Instead, new episodes just never arrive. I actually think it is actually cool that the network actually sent the person a unique, honest, handwritten response rather than some form letter, or even no response at all.and again William speaks the Truth.. networks whoever they me be don't tell you anything. They tend to leave you in the dark here. and don't tell us fans anything about what is happening within the company. But then Will you do have a valid point here. cause Like you just stated, This company did care about what the fan wanted, they sent him a personal letter, and not some form letter, and rather then ignoring the person's question they answered it. That I think really is then a professional statement. After all there are some folks who write to other companies and get less service then that. so Will your validations are indeed True.

:coyote:

[Vekou]

There never was a third season planned. And if there was, Sunrise would be the deciding factor, not Cartoon Network.

Not to mention that whoever wrote that letter is just a mailroom staffer and doesn't know what's going on.

[William C. Maune]

There never was a third season planned. And if there was, Sunrise would be the deciding factor, not Cartoon Network.

Cartoon Network had an option to pick up 26 more episodes.

[Vekou]

Cartoon Network had an option to pick up 26 more episodes.That doesn't mean there were ever plans to follow up on it.

[William C. Maune]

It meant that Cartoon Network was a deciding factor in continuing it though. Sunrise could continue it without Cartoon Network, or, because they had the 26 episode option, Cartoon Network could order 26 more episodes which would then have to be made.

[tucsoncoyote]

It meant that Cartoon Network was a deciding factor in continuing it though. Sunrise could continue it without Cartoon Network, or, because they had the 26 episode option, Cartoon Network could order 26 more episodes which would then have to be made.and I can support William on this one.. After all CN does this for other shows as well (Most notably Totally Spies!), which CN already has given a Go ahead to Marathon, for a 3rd and a 4th Season and they are currently talking about even a 5th Season of the series. (so Sure sunrise probably went to the bargaining table said, Okay you want 26 more epiosdes? And CN said at that point, no). So therefore it's a pretty Open and shut case here.

:coyote:

[Vekou]

Regardless of what Cartoon Network could have done, I still do not consider a series that has long ago finished production "cancelled," because there were no existing plans to continue production to begin with.

[William C. Maune]

Regardless of what Cartoon Network could have done, I still do not consider a series that has long ago finished production "cancelled," because there were no existing plans to continue production to begin with.

That is true also. Cartoon Network ordered 13 more episodes and they got 13 more episodes. Order completed. It wasn't really cancelled so much as just not continued.

[Vekou]

That is true also. Cartoon Network ordered 13 more episodes and they got 13 more episodes. Order completed. It wasn't really cancelled so much as just not continued.I'm glad we agree.

[Sheamon]

I'm just curious but why did people find Big O II SO much worse that Big O I? Is it because of the ending? It's not the first time I've come across someone with this opinion but nobody has really said why they hold this opinion.
Part of what made season 1 so good and so rewatchable was that the mystery factor was there. You could watch it time and time again looking for various little clues to help you figure out just what is going on in this city. And the overall atmosphere of the show was helped by the fact that there was no solution until we got the sequel, it helped contribute to the show's intrigue. People like me who hold these views knew that the show would never be as good as it was once they had an actual ending. Thats not saying Big O II was bad, I loved it. But the first set of episodes were a lot more fun to watch and rewatch. Those are my opinions on the matter. Hopefully MW will shock us and actually go into more details than his usual 'anime sucks' routine.

And as said by others, the show isn't really cancelled. We got an ending, made specifically because of the show's popularity in America. As a fan of shows like the Lone Gunmen and Wonderfalls, two shows killed with no conclusion whatsoever (and Wonderfalls barely got going, atleast TLG got half a season!), we really don't have anything to complain about with Big O. That there will not be a third season does not dissappoint me.

[Killtacular]

Part I was better because it was a noir-inspired detective series with style AND substance. The Giant Robot mystery? Come on, the Giant Robots were such a "this is what'll keep us from getting cancelled" gimmick. The main draw was Roger's investigations and relationships. The observations of human and androids. There was an ATTITUDE to the show. Noone carried ten ton weights on their shoulders. Roger was grim, cold, and calculating, but suave and sophisticated. It was a fantastic program.

Part II suddenly decided to stop character about characters, to stop caring about the original style and flair, to stop caring about the original angle of the show. It's like they said "Well, people liked giant robots the most in the last series, let's just do a whole series about the giant robots!" There's no attitude. The noir style is completely missing from the series, replaced with incredibly generic BG designs, incredibly soft linework and muted colors, and no grit or texture to anything. Writing wise. There's only two investigations in the entire season that I know of. Everyone's personalities have been hollowed out and filled with Evangelion juice, to pee angst every five seconds. There is nothing in Big O II that is ANYTHING like Big O I, except for Beck. It's all a god damn sham. And I'll admit, I was trying to 'piece together' the mystery too with everyone else back then, but there IS no mystery. It's all just a bunch of pretentious hack artsy hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hackonaka hack hack hack hack dribble.

Part II just doesn't even seem to follow any of the original guidelines of the show. The main foundation of the original series was that Dorothy and Roger would never take each other seriously enough to think that they could actually have a relationship of any kind. They SORT of understood this in "The Greatest Villain" but then they went and 180ed into stupidity with later episodes of Angel trying to invent a love triangle between the three (WTF) and then the last episode with Roger wanting Dorothy to resusitate him through the lips. I mean come on, that's a line they established that they were never to cross, and off they go, crossing it.

And don't get me started on all of the soap opera/broadway type bits, with the shakesperian acting in Roger the Wanderer, all of the G Gundam esque shouting, the "I AM A TOMATO?!?!" which only served to remind me of Bumblebee Man from The Simpsons, the incredibly retarded "union" that Angel was a part of, and the poorly set up climax to the final episode. If you're going to do emotion do it right! I mean Sunrise may have lost Bones artists but how can they forget how to do drama? Dorothy's being shut off was handled so poorly.

You want to know the real meaning of the ending? The ending is the writers saying "Jesus Christ, what has this show become?! Let's just reboot it, forget it ever happened, and move on with our lives."

[Jaguar]

=(

There goes my last reason to watch action.

[Anime Freak]

Big O ended with episode 26, I dont see any possible way they could have continued it, in fact I never believed that they would continue it and order new eppys. This isn't the end of the world, i'm sure that CN will probably rerun Big O again in the future(I dont know how with Action losing its timeslots, but lets stay optimistic). At least be happy that Big O got treated better than Lupin did.

[William C. Maune]

At least be happy that Big O got treated better than Lupin did.

At this point, I think Lupin has actually aired at lot more than Big O.

[Killtacular]

At this point, I think Lupin has actually aired at lot more than Big O.
Lupin's also been in AS's possession six to eight months longer than Big O had been. Not to mention it split itself up into two segments. So it seems like it's aired a lot longer, but in reality I can only think of it being on the air in a complete set.... three times, I'd say.

[shogunthethird]

I don't mind big O being cancelled, cancellation just means no third season, they'll probably just rotate something else out and bring Big O back like they always do, I kind of object to the anime-bashing, and even that may not be genuine but it still pales in comparison to what the sci-fi channel (or sly-lie or skiffy or any other number of derogatory mispronunciations) did to Farscape fans, now THAT was insulting to a core fanbase, I've seen mistreatment of genre fans and Mike Lazzo is no Bonnie Hammer (ask any 'Scaper)

still insulting a viewer fanbase is just plain stupid on all levels, I mean you don't see CN saying guys who watch miguzi are gay

[DSRGirl]

Lupin's also been in AS's possession six to eight months longer than Big O had been.
More like 6, if you just count Big O and not when Big O Season Two Started. Since Lupin Started January 2003, Big O started July 2003, and the second Season started August 2003.

[Master Moron]

I really don't think the second series of Big O ruined the first season of Big O. There was nothing to ruin. I thought Big O was pretentious crap when I first saw it and everyone on this board said "No! You don't understand it! You can't judge a series when it's only half way done! When they air the second half you'll understand it!" Then the second half aired and it sucked just as much as the first half. I'm glad a third season wasn't made.

You know, the next time I say a series sucks can you guys just take my word for it and not beg to see a new season?

[Anime Freak]

I really don't think the second series of Big O ruined the first season of Big O. There was nothing to ruin. I thought Big O was pretentious crap when I first saw it and everyone on this board said "No! You don't understand it! You can't judge a series when it's only half way done! When they air the second half you'll understand it!" Then the second half aired and it sucked just as much as the first half. I'm glad a third season wasn't made.

You know, the next time I say a series sucks can you guys just take my word for it and not beg to see a new season?Why should we take your word for it? Matt wilson tells everyone that .hack//sign and wolfs rain suck and yet people still watch it. Tienshin says that Trigun sucks and people still watch it. Hyper Sensei doesn't say anything sucks, but makes up fantasy schedules and people still watch Toonami even though the Fantasy schedules will probably never come true....

So now to the main point...everyone has their own opinion and no one person is always correct,not even Dr. Phil.

[SirLemming]

But with CN only airing the actual ending once, it makes you wonder.Actually, they brought it back. And thankfully, because THAT was truly unprofessional, cutting off the end of the series just to save a few seconds.

[Sketch]

Why should we take your word for it? Matt wilson tells everyone that .hack//sign and wolfs rain suck and yet people still watch it. Tienshin says that Trigun sucks and people still watch it. Hyper Sensei doesn't say anything sucks, but makes up fantasy schedules and people still watch Toonami even though the Fantasy schedules will probably never come true....

So now to the main point...everyone has their own opinion and no one person is always correct,not even Dr. Phil.I rebuke that comment! Beyblade and REIGN suck and deserve no acceptance. They should burn in hades for all enternity... I'm also not very fond of Dragonball GT... and don't get me started on American cartoons of recent years... it's all crap. I miss the 90's.

It's too bad for the Big O. I enjoyed the second season and I didn't think it was such a bad move but I guess I can agree with Matt that the first 13 episodes were just better. Better written for sure.

That's why I cringe whenever I hear something about continuing Cowboy Bebop. I'm not really a Bebop fan but I know it's a quality series that many enjoy and continuing it would be a terrible idea and only hurt the series.

So many animes I love are getting the boot because of the dang ratings system. Kenshin most notably and I still want to see Kikaider again dang it!

[bigddan11]

Last time I checked it was Bandai that people should be mad at, not CN. Bandai holds the rights to the show. CN just had the airing contract. Granted, they helped make season 2, but Bandai is the ones that could make more episodes if they wanted to.

As for Beyblade, it's an extremly good Anime. It's not CN Toonami material, but the plot is good and so is the stroyline. It's much better than Reign as well as some other shows that bombed on OVA's.

[Sketch]

Last time I checked it was Bandai that people should be mad at, not CN. Bandai holds the rights to the show. CN just had the airing contract. Granted, they helped make season 2, but Bandai is the ones that could make more episodes if they wanted to.
But CN was the financial backer and they were the ones given the option to continue it. But obviously ratings mean something to Bandai and Sunrise as well... I'd say they're all to blame if this series isn't continued but I suppose it wouldn't be horrible if it wasn't.

[Anime Freak]

So many animes I love are getting the boot because of the dang ratings system. Kenshin most notably and I still want to see Kikaider again dang it!
Swimbuddha noted on the Adult Swim forums that they currently dont have any plans to reair Kikaider in the near future..Just thought i'd mention that to you.

[livingfruitvirus]

Swimbuddha noted on the Adult Swim forums that they currently dont have any plans to reair Kikaider in the near future..Just thought i'd mention that to you.
as Gorgeous George would say, WOO!

[Eddy]

What? Were we supposed to be expecting a third season? Because always thought the Big O 2 was where it ended and was fine with that.

We don't need a Big O 3. Just be happy they were able to get us a Big O 2.

[Mr. Pedro]

Oh wells. Big O was alright. It got the full 26-episode treatment and aired several times, so I'm not really gonna lose any sleep over this.

[ClockStomper]

Part I was better because it was a noir-inspired detective series with style AND substance. The Giant Robot mystery? Come on, the Giant Robots were such a "this is what'll keep us from getting cancelled" gimmick. The main draw was Roger's investigations and relationships. The observations of human and androids. There was an ATTITUDE to the show. Noone carried ten ton weights on their shoulders. Roger was grim, cold, and calculating, but suave and sophisticated. It was a fantastic program.

Part II suddenly decided to stop character about characters, to stop caring about the original style and flair, to stop caring about the original angle of the show. It's like they said "Well, people liked giant robots the most in the last series, let's just do a whole series about the giant robots!" There's no attitude. The noir style is completely missing from the series, replaced with incredibly generic BG designs, incredibly soft linework and muted colors, and no grit or texture to anything. Writing wise. There's only two investigations in the entire season that I know of. Everyone's personalities have been hollowed out and filled with Evangelion juice, to pee angst every five seconds. There is nothing in Big O II that is ANYTHING like Big O I, except for Beck. It's all a god damn sham. And I'll admit, I was trying to 'piece together' the mystery too with everyone else back then, but there IS no mystery. It's all just a bunch of pretentious hack artsy hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hackonaka hack hack hack hack dribble.

Part II just doesn't even seem to follow any of the original guidelines of the show. The main foundation of the original series was that Dorothy and Roger would never take each other seriously enough to think that they could actually have a relationship of any kind. They SORT of understood this in "The Greatest Villain" but then they went and 180ed into stupidity with later episodes of Angel trying to invent a love triangle between the three (WTF) and then the last episode with Roger wanting Dorothy to resusitate him through the lips. I mean come on, that's a line they established that they were never to cross, and off they go, crossing it.

And don't get me started on all of the soap opera/broadway type bits, with the shakesperian acting in Roger the Wanderer, all of the G Gundam esque shouting, the "I AM A TOMATO?!?!" which only served to remind me of Bumblebee Man from The Simpsons, the incredibly retarded "union" that Angel was a part of, and the poorly set up climax to the final episode. If you're going to do emotion do it right! I mean Sunrise may have lost Bones artists but how can they forget how to do drama? Dorothy's being shut off was handled so poorly.

You want to know the real meaning of the ending? The ending is the writers saying "Jesus Christ, what has this show become?! Let's just reboot it, forget it ever happened, and move on with our lives."I would agree with you...except for the implications CN basically "ghost wrote" Big O into Evangelion (kinda makes sense, since they probably like Eva, yet can't aquire it...turning Big O into Eva was their comprimise.) The poster "Pepperidge" (sorry if I'm not spelling that right) brought it up, but never elaborrated further.

It wasn't complete crap, Alan Gabriel and a few investigation based episodes were more in line with Season One, among with various smaller elements. Which sort of supports the creators struggling to turn crap scripts into something they could live with.

[Delthayre]

I recall reading that the giant robot angle was the beginnings of the show and that Konaka was instrumental in creating the rest of the concept, the concept of the city having lost its memories at least So I'm not sure the evaluation of the robot element (which I admit having liked) being a gimmick is accurate. It's a pity that they didn't explore the memories premise in a more interesting and sensible manner, it's actually a rather clever concept.

I thoroughly enjoyed the second season until the last two episodes when everything became garbage, there were a few qualms with the series to be had prior to that, but I had otherwise enjoyed it enough to ignore them.

[Sketch]

Swimbuddha noted on the Adult Swim forums that they currently dont have any plans to reair Kikaider in the near future..Just thought i'd mention that to you.
Yeah I know, thus why I mentioned it.

[Pepperidge]

I would agree with you...except for the implications CN basically "ghost wrote" Big O into Evangelion (kinda makes sense, since they probably like Eva, yet can't aquire it...turning Big O into Eva was their comprimise.) The poster "Pepperidge" (sorry if I'm not spelling that right) brought it up, but never elaborrated further. I said no such thing.

But yeah, I hear that CN executives did a few "rewrites" for the second half of the series, so perhaps that explains the stylistic change? I mean, it was original written to continue directly from the first series, so I can't imagine why it would suddenly "change" in its original form.

[The Landstander]

I thoroughly enjoyed the second season until the last two episodes when everything became garbage, there were a few qualms with the series to be had prior to that, but I had otherwise enjoyed it enough to ignore them.Same here, more or less. I thought it was entertaining up until towards the end, when it...bleh. I tried to convince myself it somehow made sense, and it meant something, but....it doesn't.

As for the original post, as mentioned, I don't see anything to get upset about. At least they were upfront and honest with the postcard. =P

[Delthayre]

As for the original post, as mentioned, I don't see anything to get upset about. At least they were upfront and honest with the postcard. =P
Yeah, but there's something I've always found inherently insulting about post cards. But I just don't like post cards, so that's a personal problem, like only being able to see three dimensions.

[RedBoot]

REIGN sucks and deserves no acceptance.
Let's all say it together now: Reign was a GOOD SERIES. Yes, indeed it was. Look past the art style, the plot is actually good, and in the end, (kinda) makes sense. It's a hell of a lot better than the recent stuff they've tossed us (WHR, WR).

As for Big O, hell, it's my second favorite anime series of all time, but even I can admit that it ended and does not need a third season.There are some shows that can be continued, and some that can't. Cowboy Bebop, Big O, they both ended and don't need to be continued. Outlaw Star, Kikaider, these series were left open and could concievably be continued without hurting the ending of the previous series (this is ignoring the Kikaider OVAs, and also assuming that people actually want more Kikaider). When a series is wrapped up, it's time to set it aside and look for something else (unless you wanna get into alternate universes or side storys, but that's something else entirely).

As for the quality of Big O 2, I think they got tired mid-season. It started out great, Roger the Wanderer was good, Negociations with the Dead was great and served as a good intro for Alan Gabriel, and The Greatest Villain was the high point of the season, if not the whole series. Then it all dropped. Adding in Angel's "organization" ruined a lot of the storyline (though we know foreigners existed, they didn't necessarily need to be like that, or even in the spotlight at all, I think it would have been better left as a side point). Alan Gabriel lost a lot of the steam he'd built up in the first episodes of the season, as did many of the other characters. Putting Rosewater in the Third Big hurt the storyline. They ignored all the signs from the first season that pointed to Angel being the Big Duo's pilot. Hell, in the end, the only highlight of the last half of season 2 was Beck.

Like I said, I still like the series as a whole, even though 1/4 of it disappoints me. Maybe I built up a storyline in my head from all my rewatching and analyzing of the first season, and was disappointed that it was different.

Either way, the series is over and done, and does not need to be continued. Deal with it, and focus your efforts on other things, or possibly other shows that deserve more episodes. *coughoutlawstarcough*

[Paul_Cousins]

I'm in agreement with you here Paul and yes this does lack the professionalism that is supposed to be handled by all animation companies. in fact now the real thing is that The Folks over here at AS and CN are learning is what some of us knew all along.. Namely Folks at animation Studios don't care about the fans. they don't care if you watch anime or not. they don't care if you watch Quality programming. And in fact You're right Paul, They really were very unprofessional in all this.(Like you stated, why didn't the PR department handle this? Were they Too Lazy to try? Or maybe they were more worried aobut Ratings and decided to put on the stupidest idea on the Planet (Namely Hockey Chicken- Which I might add is something Probably Matt W loves to enjoy. and you know I'm just pulling your leg there matt.)

but I agree here Paul all these folks need a to take a tranquilizer and Calm down. Maybe a good time out..

As for CN? Well they are indeed acting like a spoiled child.. sort of like that 61 year old Spoiled brat over at another company;) . But that's another story..)

:coyote:
Thank you Coyote. :)

I would also like to know why someone deleted my post on the second page of this thread which read.

"I like to think the best of people, but with Matt Wilson, it's difficult.

Maybe someone who loved anime, broke his heart.

Now back on topic, what is your opinion on the way CN has handled this?"

This was not a flame in any way, but maybe I figured out the truth for the reason Matt Wilson acts the way he does.

[Nin-Nin69]

OMG people! DVD'S. Get the DVD's.

S1 is how much in Best Buy? $35?

Just buy the DVD's. :shrug:

[Gruntling]

Hmm... I bet they were trying to funny... lol. But seriously, I didn't expect there to be a third season of Big O. They second season I heard was made only for American audiences, so a third? I don't think so. I'm not upset over this news anyway though, because I hardly even watched the show.

[Paul_Cousins]

Hmm... I bet they were trying to funny... lol. But seriously, I didn't expect there to be a third season of Big O. They second season I heard was made only for American audiences, so a third? I don't think so. I'm not upset over this news anyway though, because I hardly even watched the show.Frankly, if nothing else, I would like a manga continuation of the TV series. :)

I see the most of the people here who did not like Big O Season 2 were confused by it.

Listen everyone, to enjoy Season 2 of Big O, you need to know about Batman and see both the Blade Runner and Dark City movies.

Big O from beginning to the end of episode 26 went in this transition, Batman-to-Blade Runner-to-Dark City. This is the easiest way to explain it.

Episodes 25 and 26 were not a EVA ripoff. If it was an EVA ripoff, it would have ended with Roger and Angel being the last two people left on Earth.

[Karl Olson]

Yeah, Matt really thinks anime sucks, because that's why defended it on other TZ boards. That's why he's suggested that independent anime studios have a shot at doing Looney Tunes shorts as way of bringing new life into the franchise. That's why he's got Keroro Gunzo as his avatar. That's why he was watching and enjoying Jungle Wa Itsumo Hachi no Guu. That why he often checks whatever is new out on fansub. That's why when I ask if any new and interesting anime is out, he'll suggest some stuff to me. Cause he hates it.

But since you believe Matt is biased against anime, allow a true blue, spending his checking account to nil to go to otakon, probably gonna be flat broke for a few months otaku, namely me, to state that Matt is pretty much right. Big O II not the series Big O I is. It's not stylish, it's awkwardly handled and it's manages to take what might have been a really neat concept, and angst it into the ground.

However, I blame one person, and only one person: Chiaki J. Konaka. He's a great writer, when he's either had complete control over the property's format and style from the start (IE: Lain, Texhnolyze) or when he's allowed the occaisional script (Gasaraki, Big O I.) In Big O II, he applied an over-existentialist, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern wanna-be philosophy to a show that really had no reason to go that route at all, atleast not in such a beaten-into-your-skull way. Smoothly woven in with the Noir overtones of the first season, it could have worked. But it wasn't handled that way.

Does the TV show setup work as a metaphor for Big O? Yes, it was definetely being setup from the first season, what with with the fake city underground, but the execution of that metaphor was almost painfully maudlin at points, and only if you're making something Eva-like from the start can you get away with that, and Big O [i]was more Batman, Shaft and James Bond than Eva originally, with even the shift in the music used between the two seasons showing how it went from cool to angsty giant mecha. Was it executed without the style, fair and wit of the first season? Yes, yes, yes, 1000 times yes. Big O season 1 was so darn cool I had to get it on DVD. I did paintings of Dorothy, Roger and Paradigm city for art class. "Winter Night Phantom" was and still is one of my favorite single episodes of any show ever. The first season of Big O solidfied my interest in anime. Big O II lost that charm and flair, because Konaka replaced charm with pretention in a situation and story that didn't need it at all. Big O is not Lain, it's not Texhnolyze, and Konaka shouldn't have handled it in that fashion. He always seems to stuff his views and tastes into the stuff he works on for an extended period (all that stuff in Lain about ETs? his own personal obsession/fetish, as was, well, most everything else in Lain) but in the case of Big O, that isn't acceptable because it ruins an established atomosphere, negating the original tone of the series. Big O wasn't his baby, and he shouldn't have been put in charge of the second season's story as if it were. They should have let him have some key episodes like he had in Season 1, then let other writers handle the rest, because that would have created an atomosphere and story interesting enough that enough more people might have watched it, and their might well have been a 3rd season. But that didn't happen.

Am I buying the Big O II DVDs? Yeah, because it does wrap up the story. But it's not simply not as awesome as Big O I, atleast given what made Big O I awesome for me. If you won't mind a shift from film noir anime to post-eva giant robot anime, cool, but I'm not a fan of that. Stick to one or the other, and do it well is my POV.

eh, 2:32am. I should sleep.

[Evil & Lovin It]

So what's the deal... Are we eating their souls or not, because I have a lot of other souls I could be eating right now.

[Paul_Cousins]

Yeah, Matt really thinks anime sucks, because that's why defended it on other TZ boards. That's why he's suggested that independent anime studios have a shot at doing Looney Tunes shorts as way of bringing new life into the franchise. That's why he's got Keroro Gunzo as his avatar. That's why he was watching and enjoying Jungle Wa Itsumo Hachi no Guu. That why he often checks whatever is new out on fansub. That's why when I ask if any new and interesting anime is out, he'll suggest some stuff to me. Cause he hates it. [insert rolleyes here.]
You forgot the 'sarcasm' tag and it was Matt Wilson who came to this thread with a hostile attitude. :sad:

Also, I have pointed out how Big O Season 2 is not a EVA ripoff.

Now let's get back on topic on how CN treats it's anime fans. :rolleyes:

[William C. Maune]

Now let's get back on topic on how CN treats it's anime fans. :rolleyes:

Ok. Cartoon Network shows more anime than any other major television network.

[Sheamon]

Let's all say it together now: Reign was a GOOD SERIES. Yes, indeed it was. Look past the art style, the plot is actually good, and in the end, (kinda) makes sense. It's a hell of a lot better than the recent stuff they've tossed us (WHR).

I agree, I thought Reign was a very good show with an interesting plot and well developed main characters. Yes, the character designs are about the ugliest I've ever seen, even worse than Gundam Seed, but look past the animation and its a very good show that IMHO has been unfairly bashed for the sole reason of the way the characters looked. Although Wolf's Rain is better :p

[SirLemming]

Reign was good, even if I don't jump at the chance to see it again. It certainly wasn't half as bad as people act like it was.

Big O II started off really strong with "Roger the Wanderer", which felt like a big event and was really one of the best anime episodes I've ever seen. But things kind of got confusing after that, and I found myself trying to like the finale rather than being amazed and satisfied by it.

[Ben]

However, I blame one person, and only one person: Chiaki J. Konaka. He's a great writer, when he's either had complete control over the property's format and style from the start (IE: Lain, Texhnolyze) or when he's allowed the occaisional script (Gasaraki, Big O I.) In Big O II, he applied an over-existentialist, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern wanna-be philosophy to a show that really had no reason to go that route at all, atleast not in such a beaten-into-your-skull way. Smoothly woven in with the Noir overtones of the first season, it could have worked. But it wasn't handled that way.


You are absolutely right about Konaka. Konaka's work is only successful when he has other people on the production to humanize the relationships and characters, which is why his partnerships with aBE are so successful. Giving him freer reign on the second season is exactly what killed the show.

One more thing while I'm here:

Imagine that... perhaps that also explains why they never went public with this news. Perhaps Williams Street was hoping that everyone would forget and just roll over like a bunch of lapdogs (pardon the pun).

Pun? What? It's so hard to take irrationally pissed off anime fans seriously.

[Evil & Lovin It]

Everyone ingonres me...is that because im a noob or a jerk?

....or both?

[The Gunnshuu]

...Oh, you were saying, Evil & Lovin It?

As for this thread, I agree with whatever the Landstander said.

[Evil & Lovin It]

:(

[the Amanda]

Now let's get back on topic on how CN treats its anime fans. :rolleyes:*waves tiny flag* Oh boy. This again.

[Karl Olson]

You forgot the 'sarcasm' tag and it was Matt Wilson who came to this thread with a hostile attitude. :sad:

No, that's just Matt Wilson's demeanor. Much like CN, he pulls no punches. Also to make a thread called "Is this what Cartoon Network considers to be 'Professionalism'" is pretty hostile in of itself. It's certainly, at the least, a very biased of starting things off.

Also, I have pointed out how Big O Season 2 is not a EVA ripoff.

Oh yeah, the metaphor and message are different, but the bouts of stillness, angst and the rhetorical/existentialist nonesuch of "who am I?/what am I?/am I tomato?" is very Eva-esque in tone (not in story, obviously.) If it's not Eva-eque, then as I said, it's Rosencrantz-and-Guildenstern-are-Dead-esque.

Now let's get back on topic on how CN treats it's anime fans. :rolleyes:

Ok, it treats them a damn sight better than pretty much every other major network that airs anime. CN fessed up that their wouldn't be a third season of Big O, something that is almost taboo for any network. CN tells us the ratings for the shows every week as a way of trying to spur the word of mouth forward. CN airs the content on AS uncut as of late (don't believe me? ask Kyle Pope, he'll tell you the same thing, unless you're gonna be anal about the OPs, eyecatches and EDs.) CN is in someways, one of the most honest, professional networks on television, and at the very least, they are the most honest with their fans, because they actually interact with their fans, and they'll even lurk on fan internet bullitin boards like this one, and listen to what were saying.

[Master Moron]

Why should we take your word for it? Matt wilson tells everyone that .hack//sign and wolfs rain suck and yet people still watch it. Tienshin says that Trigun sucks and people still watch it. Hyper Sensei doesn't say anything sucks, but makes up fantasy schedules and people still watch Toonami even though the Fantasy schedules will probably never come true....

So now to the main point...everyone has their own opinion and no one person is always correct,not even Dr. Phil.

But, .Hack//Sign DOES suck. I wish I listened to Matt Wilson when I first started watching it so I didn't have to piss away all those Saturday nights. I mean, it seemed like it was going somewhere at first, and then I got to episode 26 and I'm like "Wait, a minute, that show sucked!" I'm enjoying Wolf's Rain right now, but who knows, it's quite possible that I'll reach episode 26 and once again realize that I should have listened to Matt Wilson. And 2/3 of Trigun DOES suck, so technically that show sucks too.

But, you know, Big O is different from all these other shows, because it was never finished when it started airing on Adult Swim. I mean, everyone liked it based on the false assumption that the story was actually going somewhere, well, it was kind of, but it certainly didn't go anywhere anyone liked.

Actually, I've said before that I always found Big O really similar to Pilot Candidate. Both series were only halfway finished on CN and both series, imo, were way too slow and had some of the most boring plots I've ever seen. I never understood why everyone expected the second series of Big O to be spectacular when the first season wasn't all that good, especially when no one wanted to see a second season of Pilot Candidate. Honestly, after watching a dozen episodes of Pilot Candidate and Big O I thought it was pretty safe to dismiss both these shows as crap, yet most people thought to only dismiss Pilot Candidate as crap and wanted to see Big O get another chance. By the way, I was partially kidding when I said everyone should take my word for it the next time I say a show sucks.

[Eddy]

They aren't treating anime bad or anything just because Big O is over. I mean, what more could happen in Big O, anyway?

Be thankful Cartoon Network got us a second season. You know, they didn't have to do that.

And let's not get into another "Adult Swim hates anime" discussion. Because they don't hate anime.

[Paul_Cousins]

1. No, that's just Matt Wilson's demeanor. Much like CN, he pulls no punches. Also to make a thread called "Is this what Cartoon Network considers to be 'Professionalism'" is pretty hostile in of itself. It's certainly, at the least, a very biased of starting things off.



2. Oh yeah, the metaphor and message are different, but the bouts of stillness, angst and the rhetorical/existentialist nonesuch of "who am I?/what am I?/am I tomato?" is very Eva-esque in tone (not in story, obviously.) If it's not Eva-eque, then as I said, it's Rosencrantz-and-Guildenstern-are-Dead-esque.



3. Ok, it treats them a damn sight better than pretty much every other major network that airs anime. CN fessed up that their wouldn't be a third season of Big O, something that is almost taboo for any network. CN tells us the ratings for the shows every week as a way of trying to spur the word of mouth forward. CN airs the content on AS uncut as of late (don't believe me? ask Kyle Pope, he'll tell you the same thing, unless you're gonna be anal about the OPs, eyecatches and EDs.) CN is in someways, one of the most honest, professional networks on television, and at the very least, they are the most honest with their fans, because they actually interact with their fans, and they'll even lurk on fan internet bullitin boards like this one, and listen to what were saying.1. It is like what my parents say, "It is not what you say, but how you say it." It's called having tac, something you seem to not understand.

2. Blade Runner asked those questions in 1982. Besides, Big O Season 2 is heavily inspired by Dark City, which asked those questions, too.

Also, the name Schwarzwald, it means "black forest" in German, the name is an injoke to the old Faustian Myth. The Big O series was a deep thinking series from the first episode onward, you guys just don't want to admit that.

3. See 1. After seeing the Adult Swim AdultBuddha/chicken-website commercial, I have my doubts that WS and or the rest of CN lack any type of tac what so ever.

Now please stay on topic. :rolleyes:

[Ben]

1. It is like what my parents say, "It is not what you say, but how you say it." It's called having tac, something you seem to not understand.
Are you being facetious or do you honestly not see your own hypocrisy? How much tact (it is spelled that way btw) is there in starting a thread in which you accuse Cartoon Network of trying to brush Big O under the rug because they had the guts to tell their fans they couldn't renew the show? How much understanding do you show in coming in and accusing Matt of not liking anime? And how much love do you think you're going to get from us when you're implying that the posters of this board are all sf newbies who haven't even seen Blade Runner? How about you get that plank out of your eye?

Also, the name Schwarzwald, it means "black forest" in German, the name is an injoke to the old Faustian Myth. The Big O series was a deep thinking series from the first episode onward, you guys just don't want to admit that.

We're criticizing the show because you can do an intellectual show well but you can also do it poorly and pretentiously. How many student films have references to Faust but still are utter disasters? Just because someone quotes Nietzsche doesn't mean they're a good storyteller.

3. See 1. After seeing the Adult Swim AdultBuddha/chicken-website commercial, I have my doubts that WS and or the rest of CN lack any type of tac what so ever.

The fact remains that CN treats anime fans better than anyone on basic cable and treats their fans in general with more respect than any other network I can think of right now. You remind me of a politician who gets offended at everything as long as it's convenient.

Now please stay on topic. :rolleyes:

What? How was Karl off-topic?

[the Amanda]

It sounds to me that anyone who doesn't come into this thread and whine about how CN is a pack of big bullies for cancelling Big O, is called "off-topic".

[Tienshin]

Well, this is a fine mess we have gotten ourselves into.

So here's the bottom line for the "too long; didn't read" crowd: There will be no more Big O. After 26 episodes it is finished.

There was some other stuff too, but quite frankly I don't want to recap the dramarama crap.

Now, we can all move on with our lives.