Adult Swim- Anime free by 2005?

[Beat]

This is an alarming topic that deserves it's own dedicated thread.

It's become clear that there's a serious discrepancy between the advertising, promotion, and scheduling for comedy and anime. Comedy gets the lion's share of the ads and ad time. Even high profile projects such as the Animatrix were barely advertised.

Also, Action is sent to Saturdays for exclusive time? Good? Not when you consider Saturday's is the least watched day of the week. And now we have WS threatening a "comedy infusion" to take it over.

What are your thoughts? Is there a definite concern?

[Sketch]

The problem here is that most of the anime viewers are either younger than AS' ratings care for or they are only at the begining of the ratings while the comedies seem to get the attention of nearly the whole demographic.

They could try something risky like putting a very popular anime at the top of the Sunday line-up. They did something similar with the Big O but the Big O wasn't that popular.

Honestly... when it comes to the action portion it might as well be called [teenage fanboy swim]. They might as well just make it Toonami the Midnight Run but still air things with warnings and less edited than on prime time Toonami.

They haven't given up on ASA Saturdays yet though. FMA and GitS come this fall and probably some more stuff will come in 2005 like GunGrave or Samurai Champloo. It's been obvious that the anime isn't as popular as the comedies for as long as AS has existed. I thought the point of having ASA on Saturday was to have it on a night that ratings wouldn't matter much.

Maybe if they actually adertised their action shows in the general AS promos then more people would care... or maybe they could have a general action promo like they did back in the day "Gun slingers, bounty hunters, demons..."

WS loves action though, but maybe they'll decide they don't want two action blocks anymore. :sad:

[Swordfish_II]

If they infuse comedy into the action Saturday block, I'll infuse my foot up thier ass.



Who didn't see that one coming?



Heh. I said 'coming.'


But it all seriousness, I don't see how they'd survive on just American produced comedies, since there aren't that many available to them, and they don't have that many episodes.

[Mysteryinfoman]

I can see where you coming from, and you make a good point but I think it has something to do that most anime coming out now is just not that good, of course there are exceptions, I think GIT will be it back on the map and Samurai C could do it as well. I think there is some anime that still can bring ASA on the map but I think it all comes down on how WS promotes as you said because no promotion, no one knows? So I think WS really has to improve their adverstising department.

[livingfruitvirus]

I wouldn't shed a tear if Adult Swim were completely anime free. G4TechTV can have it. I-Channel can have it. Showtime or Encore Action can have it. Another channel can enter the anime race. It'll end up somewhere. Plus there's still Toonami.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

2005? not with all the stuff they acquired and haven't shown yet. maybe late 2005 but Matt was right in guessing 2006 better http://members.aol.com/kimminakochan/chicken.gif

[Delthayre]

I wouldn't shed a tear if Adult Swim were completely anime free. G4TechTV can have it. I-Channel can have it. Showtime or Encore Action can have it. Another channel can enter the anime race. It'll end up somewhere. Plus there's still Toonami.
Well none of those are going to be any damn good for me. I don't get G4TechTV, I-Channel, Showtime, or Encore and I don't really like most of what Toonami airs and I think it unlikely that would change. So I will be somewhat discontented if AS cuts anime. Provided, of course, they get some less enervating properties, otherwise I probably will have given up on TV anime before that's a problem.

[Ikwig]

Well, all I can say is the day AS gets rid of anime is the day it loses myself and my friends as viewers (and, just for the record, not one of us is a "teenage fan-boy" - we're men and women ranging in age from mid-twenties to early forties).

Anime was what got me sucked into AS in the first place, and, while I do watch the comedy stuff on occasion, anime is what keeps me watching. I appreciate the fact that at least one channel which I get shows anime which isn't just for the "10 and under" set; and thanks to AS I've picked up on a few shows which I have (Kikaider) or am (Wolf's Rain) very much enjoying, and which I would never have found on my own.

I also agree with Swordfish_II: there just aren't enough American-produced comedies to keep AS in business. Getting rid of anime would also mean having to cut AS back to one or two nights a week (and those filled mostly with reruns of comedy shows we've already seen a dozen times).

So my point is: anime belongs on AS; and AS needs anime. I think getting rid of it would be a bad plan all around.

[livingfruitvirus]

Well, all I can say is the day AS gets rid of anime is the day it loses myself and my friends as viewers (and, just for the record, not one of us is a "teenage fan-boy" - we're men and women ranging in age from mid-twenties to early forties).
Tell your 35+ year old friends that AS doesn't care for their opinion.

[snip]
I also agree with Swordfish_II: there just aren't enough American-produced comedies to keep AS in business. Getting rid of anime would also mean having to cut AS back to one or two nights a week (and those filled mostly with reruns of comedy shows we've already seen a dozen times).
AS has been on a show/pilot commissioning streak this year. So far we've got new series: Squidbillies (although they only ordered 7 episodes so there's probably little confidence there), Seth Green's show (20 episodes), Venture Bros. (13 episodes) and 22 Family Guys if you wish to count them. They've got some pilot thing coming called Stroker and Hoop from Turner Studios, and Tom Goes to the Mayor from the Mr. Show people. But if anime were to be excised, you could easily fill in the 12 AM hour with 15-minute show material or Home Movies. AS won't own Mission Hill or Oblongs or Ripping Friends or Baby Blues forever so those can rotate in and out for a while. Keep in mind that most of cable TV IS 95% repeats. Look at Spike TV or Comedy Central or Trio. They have like, 8-10 original series per channel airing throughout the week, and they get by with 24 hours + infomercials at night. Cartoon Network's original programming vs. repeat ratio dwarves that of most cable networks.

So my point is: anime belongs on AS; and AS needs anime. I think getting rid of it would be a bad plan all around.
Belongs on AS? It can go other places. Needs it? No way. Getting rid of it would be a bad plan? That's for marketing to determine.

[William C. Maune]

Anime may lose slots to comedy, but I don't see it leaving the late hours at least. The main reason is that compared to comedy, anime is cheap. It costs a heck of a lot more to make your own series or acquiring big things like Futurama or Family Guy than to pick up an anime series.

[Sheamon]

I think Williams Street is in for a rude awakening if they think comedy can carry the entire block on its own. Family and Futurama is what is putting Adult Swim on the map these days, and neither have anything to do, production wise, with Williams Street. Its one thing if they can stock the entire block with excellently written cult favorites that were viciously slaughtered by the network's treatment. But how many of those are out there? Is there even one? I can't think of one. Meaning the block would be stocked with stuff like Home Movies and ATHF, which while are good in their own way, aren't whats making the block the big bucks, as we saw with the recent run of new Home Movies episodes. They can the anime entirely and they'll alienate a huge percentage of their loyal fans. There will still be many watching yes, but 99% of those are people showing up because they like Futurama and Family Guy; they could care less about the block at all and if it was scrapped entirely, the cards, all the other shows afterwards, the website, etc... the numbers would likely not go down at all for those two shows. As I've said in the past regarding Toonami with DBZ, people are attracted to a certain hit show and watch it in droves, but the majority of those people could care less about the block as a whole. If Williams Street is thinking they've got a big hit with Home Movies, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Space Ghost, Brak, whatever... and can stock the entire block with that, they're sadly mistaken. Family Guy and Futurama's what makes the block. I know many of you don't like what I'm saying, but all the other shows are filler in the majority's view. Just like the anime. If they go with the mentality that they should axe anime then they should axe all those shows too. Because its by and large Family Guy and Futurama that are making the block a hit, not much else.

[Catlover]

While AS (or CN) does not care what I think, if they drop the anime, I will drop AS. I really only care for the anime.

Also, I doubt G4Techtv will keep their anime block till 2005. Encore and Showtime? I might as well just buy DVD's than pay $20-40 every month.

[Wounded_Dragon]

Tell your 35+ year old friends that AS doesn't care for their opinion.
That seems to be the problem, AS not caring for anyone's opinion...

Yes yes, I seem to recall Big O II being in the top 3 when it was on Sunday leading off the block while it was debuting new episodes, even winning some nights. Whether reruns would've done as well we'll never really know since AS yanked it off the lead as soon as it was done. Can't have anime showing up precious comedy now can we...

Anyway

1. Cult Favorites
2. Broad Appeal
3. Tried and True, already been promoted, everyone knows about them.


WS just doesn't get why their Saturday shows aren't doing so well. Of coruse Futurama and Family Guy do well, they had cult followings long before they got to CN.

Instead of trying cultivate their acquisitions like beautiful roses, they end up trying to strip mine them. They don't promote them till DAYS before they appear. They barely give them a chance to accumulate an audience if they don't do well. People hardly know about the shows and they're already bashing them (the comment about an infusion of comedy).

Forget the infusion of comedy. ASA needs an infusion of *new* shows. AS is stretched much too thin. With only an hour of new stuff and 2 of reruns, there just isn't much of a special feel to ASA, especially compared to the last time AS was on Saturdays. Add to that there's little incentive to catch 11-2 since it's rerun directly afterwards. Also Toonami has been running movies almost non-stop, albeit short ones. ASA needs something similar; otherwise, the night just feels wasted. Although, AGAIN, promotion is key. On-air promotion of the Animatrix was pathetic.

AS is shooting itself in the foot and it's stumbling around wondering why it can't walk straight. Although to be fair, broadcast networks have been doing this for years.

[Mystic Shadow]

No... This- This c-can't be... I refuse to believe it. You Lie Beatdigga! While the comedy on Adult Swim is great, it's the Action that makes it Adult Swim. I will be too deprsed to watch comady of there's no actioon. Damn you Sealab. Why am I forced to watch a funny show I love composed of people I hate! Irony! Action will not die I won't let it. Anime... makes... Adult Swim... Anime must be the dominent factor on AS. That's the only way to make it right. What do they do for Comedy? FLCL and Lupin... yeah that'll work...

[Youko Recca]

How about they just stick tothe original run own of Action and Comedy, the only "problem" with AS is thier cockiness. They could make one wrong move and fall just like any other block. They have to promote, they have to impress, they have to satisfy. Neiter action or comedy leads the other...they need each other and the mix is as sweet as Toonami and Adult Swim back to back.

[livingfruitvirus]

Meaning the block would be stocked with stuff like Home Movies and ATHF, which while are good in their own way, aren't whats making the block the big bucks, as we saw with the recent run of new Home Movies episodes.
They can make plenty off of ATHF, Home Movies, Brak, Space Ghost and Harvey Birdman because those shows are their property. They make all the money when it comes to airing the show, distributing the show internationally, merchandising the show, DVDs, and any product they put out for those shows they make the $$$ from. Home Movies is not Adult Swim's show. It's Soup2Nuts' show. AS can only make money from Home Movies off of advertising revenue and that's it. Soup2Nuts makes the rest of the $$$ for any other sort of marketing or distribution of the show. Any Home Movies t-shirts or DVDs or stickers or shoes you see, Soup2Nuts is raking in that cash. Not Adult Swim. So that gave Adult Swim some extra leeweigh (way?) in cancelling the show. The same applies to anime. Those shows don't belong to Adult Swim. They belong to their various distributors. When it comes to marketing of those shows outside of TV, Adult Swim doesn't see nickel one of it. Cartoon Network keeps buying it up though because distributors sell it to them at relatively cheap prices. If the show grows in popularity and especially ratings then the distributor will raise the price, sometimes dramatically. By the time DBZ was over, Cartoon Network was paying FUNimation for each episode MORE THAN THE SHOW ORIGINALLY COST TO MAKE PER EPISODE to air it. The numbers were there though, so it was obviously worth the investment. Futurama and Family Guy are probably given special treatment because they can draw in viewers in the 7-digit range, thus making them a lure for viewers to tune in to their originals. Not to mention Family Guy is on its way back to the airwaves.

[RD!]

Belongs on AS? It can go other places. Needs it? No way. Getting rid of it would be a bad plan? That's for marketing to determine.

Doesn't belong on AS? Doesn't need it? Only if AS wishes to remain a block of nothing but poorly written comedy only popular because of a showing reruns of a popular FOX show.

Personaly, I think action and comedy need to be more mixed up, split blocks aren't going to bring one over to the other if they can just stop watching at one or when the other ends. The fact that they don't advertise it and treat it like a bastard child is strange since I'm sure it draws in it's crowd.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

yes they do need to drop the action/comedy titles since they have been getting a lot of actionless anime and unfunny comedy :( and I really mean mix them! every half hour! comedy action comedy action.....been saying this for awhile and alot of other people have as well I bet http://members.aol.com/kimminakochan/chicken.gif

[Gary L Thompson]

I personally have never watched a single thing on AS except anime. Frankly, I hate to admit it, but about the only cartoons that make me laugh out loud nowadays run on the Disney Channel. I can't remember laughing at any CN cartoon for quite some time. Look, "Sheep" and "Dave the Barbarian" aimed at being the same kind of show--which was far better? CN toons just aren't that funny.

[The Landstander]

Look, "Sheep" and "Dave the Barbarian" aimed at being the same kind of show--which was far better?Definetely Sheep.

*we now return to your regularly scheduled thread*

[Duke]

First off, while Futurama and Family Guy are the big guns for AS, Aqua Teen isn't a slouch either. It's had really good DVD sales and is the only "Lab" show to air weeknights since AS went weeknights.

I'm not sure if the Futurama & FG-only viewers would watch the anime even if it was properly promoted. As another poster said, they watch Futurama & FG (some stay for Aqua teens), and that's it.

Personally, I love both sides of AS. Aqua Teens is one of my favorite shows, but so is Big O.

What they need to do is make a Toonami channel, then everyone can be happy! :P

[livingfruitvirus]

Doesn't belong on AS? Doesn't need it? Only if AS wishes to remain a block of nothing but poorly written comedy only popular because of a showing reruns of a popular FOX show.
I don't think it's poorly written. And the way some say it belongs on AS it's like they're saying AS/CN should have some kind of exclusive domain over anime. Any channel can pick it up if they want. It doesn't "belong" anywhere.

[All-Star 1.5]

The way I see it. All signs point toward CN making a big split with anime and action programming in 2006.

[livingfruitvirus]

The way I see it. All signs point toward CN making a big split with anime and action programming in 2006.
I think they'd have more favor towards an action show if it was an original action series made by AS.

[William C. Maune]

The way I see it. All signs point toward CN making a big split with anime and action programming in 2006.

Do we really know that? All we have to go on are a few cards and some oddly promoted series. I'd hardly call that "all signs." They are still picking up plenty of anime series and I'd say that speaks a lot towards their intentions as well.

[Karl Olson]

I doubt it'll ever be anime-free, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was severely scaled back in the next few years unless CN starts advertising the stuff properly (have some confidence in your scheduling and start promoting stuff earlier,) and/or distributors start giving titles to CN in exchange for exposure only (IE, make the cost of the property nil for CN.)

It would also help if they started buying stuff because the story is good and will keep viewers entralled, not because it looks cool on the surface and/or they like it. Bebop's success was partially do it's cool, but also very much because a great, well-paced story and great characters as well. The same goes for FLCL, Big O I and (some may argue this but it's been on forever with good reason) Trigun. WHR, WR, Blue Gender, Reign, Kikaider and Big O II are all too atmosphere-driven (as opposed to story-driven) to really grab the audience CN seeks. There are some series that are already out there and some coming down the pipe that would have a more Bebop-like pace and hold, but CN needs to get over the cool factor sometimes, and just recognize when something is sharp and well-paced enough to grab an audience.

At this rate though, it wouldn't surprise me to see the distributors drift towards more and more alternative channels, with only 1-2 new titles per year on ASA. Titles that'll be cool-looking, but not necessarily fun and/or intriguing.

[Tapout]

I don't think they can last that long without anime. It's only been a little more than a year since Family Guy premired and it's still going strong. But it can't last forever. Most syndicated shows have over 100 episodes and I doubt Futurama and Family Guy have much more than 100 put together. Even as strong as their cult following is, it can't last all that long with so few episodes. Without those two, the audience for other ASC shows is no better than ASA.

I will join the "No AS" bandwagon if they do drop anime completely. Except ATHF. Gotta have ATHF.

[Ikwig]

I don't think it's poorly written. And the way some say it belongs on AS it's like they're saying AS/CN should have some kind of exclusive domain over anime. Any channel can pick it up if they want. It doesn't "belong" anywhere.
Ikwig (who never shuts up ;) ) says, "Well, cool enough, that's your personal opinion." :)

And when I say it "belongs on AS/CN", I will admit that's mostly just me being selfish: all of the other channels which you listed only come as part of extras packages on my cable; CN is the only place I can find anime at a price I can afford.

But I stand by what I stated earlier: there aren't enough domestic comedy shows out there to support the block. Even with the new additions, if they try to do all comedy and keep the number of nights they have now they're going to be stretched insanely thinly and relying heavily on reruns, reruns, reruns (hey, nothing holds an audience member's attention like something they've already seen). I also agree with Sheamon that what is bringing in most viewers right now is the recycled cult favorites Futurama and Family Guy, not the shows which CN actually owns. (They have lucked out in having ATHF attain something of a cult status, but it still doesn't have the drawing power of those two. Will they luck out again with any of the brand new, untested shows which they're bringing in? Maybe, maybe not. But if I were a TV exec I certainly wouldn't be relying on it: new FGs, sure, but not the other stuff). And don't forget that when AS first started out, one of their biggest draws was the anime series Cowboy Bebop. (Yeah, at this point it's been way over-run - as noted above, reruns, reruns, reruns don't hold anyone's attention for long - but at the beginning, CB was a major draw.) Anime series make for good filler, keep the block from being too much of the same thing, and yes, they do draw in viewers who otherwise wouldn't be watching AS. So, in my personal opinion, dropping all anime would be a mistake for AS/CN.

Of course, maybe the only viewers anime draws in are people who aren't in the "target audience" (like teen fan-boys, or people over 35). Even I (while well-under the 35 limit, thank you very much) am a girl, and so, since AS's target audience is 18 - 35 year old MALES, I expect that AS/CN isn't interested in my opinions either. Which, frankly, is pretty silly of them: they should be interested in the opinions of all of their fans. They should just be glad they have fans. Period. (Yeah, I know marketers are really fond of the whole "target audience" thing, but that seems pretty limiting: if you have enough over 35s, girls, etc. doesn't that open up whole new advertising markets?)

Oh, and just so ya know, I also agree that the anime shows aren't being given a decent chance, 'cause they aren't being advertised (most AS ads are for ATHF these days, and some Harvey Birdman, altho' I have seen a few for Case Closed). And I think mixing the comedy and action, as a way of keeping all of your audience in their seats in front of the TV, is an excellent plan!

Hey, I already admitted that I never shut up - you were warned! :D :p

[All-Star 1.5]

Do we really know that? All we have to go on are a few cards and some oddly promoted series. I'd hardly call that "all signs." They are still picking up plenty of anime series and I'd say that speaks a lot towards their intentions as well.
No, I am talking about CN as a whole. I mean to me it seems that CN has given up on anime outside of Toonami and ASA Saturdays. Miguzi seems to not be into anime even if there are few that they could air; AS weekdays doesn't promote anime reruns and barely promotes anime premiers; and on top of all of that they won't even try to put a few anime shows on their regular series.

In the next few years it wouldn't surprise me if CN started another channel where they could dump all the anime they acquire there.

[Chad Bonin]

I mean to me it seems that CN has given up on anime outside of Toonami and ASA Saturdays. Considering CN has never even highlighted animé airing outside of a block, it's not as if they've "given up", but more were "never attempting" animé outside of a block.

Hence why, every time an animé is announced, people debate if it'll hit Toonami or ASA, not General CN Sunday or Prime Time.

[Karl Olson]

Considering CN has never even highlighted animé airing outside of a block, it's not as if they've "given up", but more were "never attempting" animé outside of a block.

Hence why, every time an animé is announced, people debate if it'll hit Toonami or ASA, not General CN Sunday or Prime Time.

And that perhaps is the biggest problem of all. Rarely does anime show up outside of the designated pens and genres, and when it does, it's nothing to be proud of (Hamtaro, Pecola) or it's in the worst time slot available (Zoids:GF.)

It's indicative of what might be an overall bigotry in the network against anime, inspite of the fact it's gotten CN through some tough times, and inspite of the fact there is definetely some serious otaku in CN. However, those anime fans in CN unfortunately just aren't the people who get final say on almost anything at all it seems, and without general network support (which has wavered since the AOL/TW merger and never been remedied) from the rest of the network, anime could be shut out eventually.

[MJC]

Anime isn't going anywhere, though cutbacks are possible. DBZ was a huge hit, and while I don't expect anything to equal that anytime soon, the execs probably know there are shows out there like One Piece that could potentially be huge hits. There also seems to be a misconception that anything that isn't a huge hit is considered a failure, which isn't true. I doubt anybody expected WHR to get better ratings than FG.

A related thought - I'm not sure how much Family Guy and Futurama reruns can keep getting good ratings, nor am I sure how good ASC would be doing without them.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

:eek:

hey Karl we sure think alike! you pretty much summed up my crackpot CN anti-anime theory I never posted hehe! had I posted it people would have thought me ctazy....but who is the crazy one now??? :confused: :eek: http://members.aol.com/kimminakochan/chicken.gif

[William C. Maune]

CN may not show a lot of anime, but how much anime should they show? Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh will be returning to Primetime next month so that is two shows right there. Most of CN's programming comes from their own library and considering the cost efectiveness of that, it is hard to argue the network on that point.

When it comes to acquisitions things are fairly split up, you have American shows like TMNT and JCA and anime like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh. Overall, CN still shows more anime than they do shows from any other country. They are just now starting to break into other countries like France with Totally Spies and Code Lyoko.

[Karl Olson]

CN may not show a lot of anime, but how much anime should they show? Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh will be returning to Primetime next month so that is two shows right there. Most of CN's programming comes from their own library and considering the cost efectiveness of that, it is hard to argue the network on that point.

When it comes to acquisitions things are fairly split up, you have American shows like TMNT and JCA and anime like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh. Overall, CN still shows more anime than they do shows from any other country. They are just now starting to break into other countries like France with Totally Spies and Code Lyoko.


That may have partially do to with Japan being the only country other than America with a considerable animated output. When a nation is producing 80-100 new episodes of content per week, some of the that is bound to turn up as long as some of it's atleast passable. Add to the fact that Nick/Viacom bags anything of even remote worth from Canada, and that France is only beginning to get into export worthy series, then of course CN's #2 source for content will be Japan. For the most network kids' block, it's the main source.

And it's not really an issue of how much anime airs on CN (though more room means more variety,) but the quality. Right now, a lot of what they are getting anime-wise seems to be style over substance, which is almost 180 degrees away from what CN has thrived with: style and substance, and it's really more substance and style. The CCs aren't the ultimate in stylish animation, but they tell interesting, enjoyable tales.

Granted it doesn't matter what they air in someways, they must promote it to get it work at all. Just because it's convient to change the schedule at the last second because a show bombs or works well, doesn't mean you shouldn't do everything you can to promote something new before it premieres. It can even be some as vague as the early Tenchi promos, which just said "he is coming," the title of the show and didn't even give an exact date (which would allow for flexibility.) Any promo aired prominently and a month or more in advance that would generate hype and that'd help a lot.

Even Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, a series with style and substance, a series that's based on one of the more well-known anime movies, will fail if only people like us know it's going to be on. It's not promoted properly, then something is definetely awry in CN.

[The Collector]

It probably doesn't matter to them, but if they cut anime, they'd lose my viewership. I don't find much of the comedy to be very funny, and I certainly wouldn't tune in if that was all they showed.

[Duke]

Miguzi seems to not be into anime even if there are few that they could air;
Miguzi's been around for a month! Their lineup consists of three pre-proven ratings getters (Totally Spies!, TMNT, and Teen Titans), and one brand-new series in Code Lyoko. Hell, when Toonami started out the only anime it aired was Voltron. Wait until something is actually ACCQUIRED for Miguzi.

[William C. Maune]

Stuff

I agree that promotion is definitely an issue, although I don't think it is necessarily limited to anime. Cartoon Network has odd promotion across the board. Justice League is a big thing for CN, yet it doesn't even get promotion that is all that good. Justice League's season finale which has been anticipated online for months and is arguably the biggest event ever in the series gets at most a 30 second promo that starts just one week before the finale airs. Outside of a couple cards, no one knew Aqua Teen Hunger Force, their breakout in house show, would have a new episode airing on Mother's Day.

Tenchi had some of the best promotion ever, but it was a rare exception. Cartoon Network often doesn't promote a show more than a week before it airs, and it has been that way for years, anime or otherwise.

[Artimus Gigan]

You have the Action and The Comedy

The Yin and the Yang

The Fortune and the Cookie

One cannot exist solely alone

AS started out with Cowboy Bebop and then more followed

Saturdays was when new anime aired ininitialy, and thus it has returned it it's place of origin so-to-speak, but remember AS wasn't on 6 outta the 7 days of the week when it first started. It was only mondays and thursdays...

Granted Comedy has more time, but it has less premiere/new episode time

anime has less time, yet more premieres/new episodes

[Karl Olson]

I agree that promotion is definitely an issue, although I don't think it is necessarily limited to anime. Cartoon Network has odd promotion across the board. Justice League is a big thing for CN, yet it doesn't even get promotion that is all that good. Justice League's season finale which has been anticipated online for months and is arguably the biggest event ever in the series gets at most a 30 second promo that starts just one week before the finale airs. Outside of a couple cards, no one knew Aqua Teen Hunger Force, their breakout in house show, would have a new episode airing on Mother's Day.

Tenchi had some of the best promotion ever, but it was a rare exception. Cartoon Network often doesn't promote a show more than a week before it airs, and it has been that way for years, anime or otherwise.

And Tenchi did damn well for them, being a staple on Toonami for a year, then playing pinch hitter when ASA first got Saturday. Conan has the possibility of running atleast 5 to 10 years depending on how CN paces the episodes out, yet it got negligable promotion. The fact is, though it's spread to the rest of the network to some extent (JL aside, Teen Titans second season was pimped hard n' heavy, as was Duck Dodgers, so CN isn't always completely out of it) ASC can still pull out some serious promotion for it's own stuff when they are running a season's worth of episodes (see Birdman,) yet ASA is having trouble launching whole new shows. Something is up. It might just be that Sean and Jason aren't in town enough these days to properly keep tabs on stuff, or it might be something from the ASC team and corporate, but either way it's not good for the block, and the network as a whole.

[William C. Maune]

(JL aside, Teen Titans second season was pimped hard n' heavy, as was Duck Dodgers, so CN isn't always completely out of it) ASC can still pull out some serious promotion for it's own stuff when they are running a season's worth of episodes (see Birdman,)

In regards to examples such as this, I don't think it is so much of a case of having anything against anime as much as just the difference between promoting originals versus acquisitions. Originals will generally receive more promotion because there is already heavier investment and more at stake for the network.

If we are going to look at any disfavorment towards anime, I think it would be more accurate to compare it to promotion for other acquisitions. While the ball may have been dropped to some extent on Case Closed, Witch Hunter Robin was promoted well and Inu Yasha has multiple promos going. In those latter two cases, I'd say the promotion is as good as any other acquisition.

[Karl Olson]

In regards to examples such as this, I don't think it is so much of a case of having anything against anime as much as just the difference between promoting originals versus acquisitions. Originals will generally receive more promotion because there is already heavier investment and more at stake for the network.

If we are going to look at any disfavorment towards anime, I think it would be more accurate to compare it to promotion for other acquisitions. While the ball may have been dropped to some extent on Case Closed, Witch Hunter Robin was promoted well and Inu Yasha has multiple promos going. In those latter two cases, I'd say the promotion is as good as any other acquisition.

If they aren't going to promote aquisitions as hard as the originals, they shouldn't expect the same performance of it. If they are counting on word of mouth, then they've got to let it build first, especially considering a large part of their target audience is likely to be in the throws of finals right now. Also, the WHR promotion was reasonable, but the InuYasha promo was almost all post season premiere from what I could tell. Lastly, the ball has been dropped pretty much in general since AS got saturday Action back, atleast on the action side of things, or so it would appear.

[Duke]

Lastly, the ball has been dropped pretty much in general since AS got saturday Action back, atleast on the action side of things, or so it would appear.
I personally feel the ball has been dropped on everything CN sans Miguzi & Fridays.

[herbkir]

I'm another who comes to AS mainly for the anime. I don't really care for the AS comedies. Yes, including Family Guy and Futurama. If AS dumps anime entirely, they'll also be dumping me as a viewer. And I won't be alone in the dumper by a long shot. Rather than dumping anime entirely, how about trying more anime comedy. FLCL is a comedic anime that was a major ratings success.

I don't believe AS can survive just on animated comedy. There's not enough shows out there that can be edited to TV-14 and still appeal to an adult sense of humor. The mix of action and comedy is what's worked well for AS, and that's what they should stick with.

AS seems to be getting infected with the TV ratings mindset that says if a new show isn't a mega-hit by its 3rd episode, then it's a mega-failure. But they don't bother promoting their new properties. Nor do they want to allow shows time to find their audience anymore. In the real world, you either promote aggressively or allow time for word-of-mouth to work. (^_*)

[William C. Maune]

Lastly, the ball has been dropped pretty much in general since AS got saturday Action back, atleast on the action side of things, or so it would appear.

However, outside of a couple Birdman promos and the new Brak promo, promotion for Sundays lately hasn't been all that hot either. It seems like they've been running the same food-based general comedy promo for months now. There were no promos for the new ATHF episodes. There were no promos for last week's New Year's stunt. At least with action there is a 30 second promo for every show that night, even old shows like Bebop and Trigun. The same can't be said for Home Movies, Oblongs, Mission Hill, Baby Blues, etc. Those shows get a quick card, if that much. (Heck, considering how Adult Swim has grown, many would probably be watching Baby Blues for the first time, but outside of quick line in the Brak promo, there has been nothing to annouce it. They could at least drag the old promo out of the vault and quickly work in the current bumper style).

The Saturday promotion definitely needs work. I think they could really use an overall schedule promo, similar to what the new Toonami does. However, I don't think the disparity between anime and everything else is as big as some are making it out to be.

[Menion420]

The problem i see for airing anything on saturdays is that most people that are in the age demo for Adultswim are out partying. So all the friends i know that even watch AS never even get to tune in on Saturdays. So they lose a lot of viewers that way.

[Meson]

The Saturday night parties is a problem, but htey could promote Friday night for that.

[SirLemming]

Justice League's season finale which has been anticipated online for months and is arguably the biggest event ever in the series gets at most a 30 second promo that starts just one week before the finale airs.Oh man, you're right! Geeze... It'd make more sense if the show had been on for the past couple of weeks anyway, but for it to make a sudden return for the season finale, they have to promote it a lot more. I wouldn't know a thing if I didn't visit this site.
Unless I got that newspaper that did a story about it (see the News page). CN is lucky someone took the time to notice.

[Matthew Williams]

One of the reasons Case Closed got that shift to 12:30 - and possibly the little promotion it got - was because, apparently due to the ratings release we got today, ATHF is doing really really REALLY well in that midnight slot. I don't think it's going to move for some time.

[Duke]

One of the reasons Case Closed got that shift to 12:30 - and possibly the little promotion it got - was because, apparently due to the ratings release we got today, ATHF is doing really really REALLY well in that midnight slot. I don't think it's going to move for some time.
Wasn't it always planned for 12:30?

[Anime Freak]

Nope,it was originally planned for 12:00. Adult Swim needs to hurry up and come on, staying inside all day because of a stupid chemical fire in my county is annoying as heck.

[Matthew Williams]

Wasn't it always planned for 12:30?
No, schedules always had it for 12, because ATHF was only going to do one cycle and then stop it. The 12:30 was a recent change because it's getting FG-caliber ratings(well... maybe not FG-caliber, 602,000 viewers 18-34 isn't something to laugh at).

[Sketch]

If ATHF is doing so well then maybe they could move it up a half hour to 11:30 and air Family Guy at 11 instead of Futurama while Futurama continues to air at the to pf the Sunday block. I'm not sure if Futurama is doing incredibly well at this time but that's a thought. Or they could do the same thing with Family Guy or dare I say air Family Guy on Tuesday and Thursday and Futurama on Monday and Wednesday? Something could be done.

Why must the premiere of the block be on so late? I was fine with watching WHR at Midnight back in Feburary but I don't want to stay up past 12:30 on a weeknight... I have to get up at 6:20 on most mornings...

[Chimera]

Why must the premiere of the block be on so late? I was fine with watching WHR at Midnight back in Feburary but I don't want to stay up past 12:30 on a weeknight... I have to get up at 6:20 on most mornings...

I completely agree with you on this. AS started at 10:00pm, and it'd be a great idea to have it go back to that. Move everything forward an hour and I'm sure their ratings would go through the roof. I don't see why S&P would have a problem with it, considering TV-14 has become the norm for most of the shows (it's not like when Mission Hill started). They could probably even air Rejected now.

Of course, they'd probably wait until the day before to mention it, and even then it'd be during a damn card.

[NachoHat]

I wouldn't really miss anime if they dropped it.



And there's my pointless opinion!

[Jimmy Kustes]

It's not a terrible surprise, they did have commercials before movies afterall.

[magicjac]

[QUOTE=Swordfish_II]If they infuse comedy into the action Saturday block, I'll infuse my foot up thier ass.

LOL! But really, I'm not a huge fan of any anime. I never watch Adult Swim on Saturdays. The ratings report on Sunday said that the Sunday Comedy Line-Up was "Rockin'!" and the Saturady Action Line-Up was "Suckin'!" So what does that tell you?

[Discloner]

It tells you that ASC's ratings were good ('Rockin') and that ASA's ratings were bad ('Suckin').

[Delthayre]

LOL! But really, I'm not a huge fan of any anime. I never watch Adult Swim on Saturdays. The ratings report on Sunday said that the Sunday Comedy Line-Up was "Rockin'!" and the Saturady Action Line-Up was "Suckin'!" So what does that tell you?They judge the ratings of the action block on an unfair double standard given that anime shows are getting the same relative delivery as Williams Street originals have been on Sunday and that not promoting something typically means people won't know they can watch it and as often as not, won't.

[Master Moron]

[QUOTE=Swordfish_II]If they infuse comedy into the action Saturday block, I'll infuse my foot up thier ass.

LOL! But really, I'm not a huge fan of any anime. I never watch Adult Swim on Saturdays. The ratings report on Sunday said that the Sunday Comedy Line-Up was "Rockin'!" and the Saturady Action Line-Up was "Suckin'!" So what does that tell you?
It tells you that everyone over the age of 18 is out partying on Saturday nights, as previous posters have said.

Anyway, I'm all for that one posters idea of having more anime comedies, but I think they also need some American action shows. Actually, magicjac, since you're not a fan of anime, I would love to ask you a question. Do you not watch the action shows because you just don't like dramatic/action cartoons or you just don't like watching foreign cartoons? Would you watch an American action cartoon?

[Beat]

Only because there's so many comedy ads, and unfair expectations.

If anime goes, it will take a lot of comedy viewers with it.

[Nin-Nin69]

I may have to stop watching too if AS stops anime. I love most of the ASC, but thats what DVD releases are for. Heck I've been watching it less and less now since they've been screwing up the schedual recently.

I for one am not an otaku, but WS has totally destroyed Lupin's reputation here in America. One of the world's most famous and inspirational cartoon characters ever created, affronted by a bunch of immature adults. "The animation is too old", you say. "The characters are drawn poorly", you say. "Nobody likes Japanese anime", you say. Are you sure? Did you even bother to watch it not for the flaws and personal opinions, but the overall enjoyment and thrill Lupin has provided for fans over the past 30 years? Believe me, AS just lost probally their biggest show they would ever come across. Even bigger than Inuyasha.

Lupin III is one of the most hansome, devious, and over all most crafty person in the history of cartoons. Every episode contains plenty of action, humor, and plots that keep you guessing until the end. None of the episodes are repeated, no flashbacks, no main storyline. Every episode is new and almost is never lacking from most previous episodes.

The bratty fans that were not in the target demograph for Lupin thought differently. They only looked at the flaws of this series. It's old. Sure it's old. Bugs Bunny is old. Scooby Doo is old. Popeye is old. Yet you all still love them. Why not Lupin? He's the youngest out of all of them. And he can be just as impacting as these famous characters. Plus his stories can be timeless since his gadgets and the plots seem so out of this world. So age has nothing to do with it.

How about the style? That is how Monkey Punch drew him when he first created him. Nobody objected that when he created the mangas. Also,nobody here in the states objects to famous comic artists such as Jhonen V, Norm Scott, or Robert Crumb. They drew even goofier than Monkey Punch when they started out, yet that didn't stop their fame and fortune. So personal traits or style is out of the question.

But nobody likes Japanese anime or Japanese art. Only obese people with no friends love to watch beast tenticle action. Not true. Sure there are those that take it too seriously, but this is a popular form of art. Art inhabited by American tradions crossed over with traditional Japanese art. This style has influenced millions of artists and animators across the world. Even before anime was created, Japanese art had a huge impact on modern society in the past. Did you know that Vincent Van Gogh was truly inspired by Japanese art and changed his art style complety by painting more bright and natural colors? Does that make him a smacktard too?

By any chance, did you even pay attention to the action that was going on in that show. Other than the cheezy pop culture references, this show was solid from the ground up. Nobody gave it a real chance since they put those 3 factors in front of them. WS gave it another chance only to pull it off the air yet again. I bet that WS would've never let it reair if it wasn't for the thousands of angry posters on their forums.

As of recently, Lupin III is never going to make it big here in the States for another few years. Lupin had no where to go to attract the Amercian public. Sure it could go to Anime Network or G4TV, but CN grabs more viewers than both of those channels ever will. AS was the key for Lupin's sucess here in the states. Yet the guys at WS happened to kick it under the chocolate milk vending machine and let it collect dust.

Detective Conan will sucumb to this same fate. Another sucessful show in Japan with a huge following around the world will get shafted by WS.

[Tapout]

It tells you that everyone over the age of 18 is out partying on Saturday nights, as previous posters have said.
I don't know about that. Let's be honest, how many typical anime fans are out partying each weekend?

[Botman]

The bratty fans that were not in the target demograph for Lupin thought differently. They only looked at the flaws of this series. It's old. Sure it's old. Bugs Bunny is old. Scooby Doo is old. Popeye is old. Yet you all still love them.Actually, they hated Popeye (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=110814), too.

But, yeah. People suck.

And if Pioneer gives up on Lupin after Vol. #10, I doubt I'll watch anything Lupin related ever again...:sad:

[Delthayre]

I don't know about that. Let's be honest, how many typical anime fans are out partying each weekend?
I'm not an otaku, although I came dangerously close once, and I'm never out partying... of course that's because I don't enjoy it.

[William C. Maune]

Yet the guys at WS happened to kick it under the chocolate milk vending machine and let it collect dust.

How did Williams St. kill Lupin? It seems to me that Lupin's non-success had a lot more to do with the fact that many can't seem to tolerate old animation. They premiered it in the top spot in the weekday action line-up, it ran there for awhile. It then ran in the later spots in the weekday line-up. It was brought back for new episodes in a decent slot. Later, after it had been off for awhile (just like Kikaider, Reign, etc.) it was brought back again for a full run. It was off just as long as Trigun multi-month rest.

I'd say Williams St. gave Lupin plenty of chances to work. They can't keep trying if it isn't working.

[bigddan11]

The only reason I could see Anime leaving Adult Swim's block is if they decide to make Toonami the actual teen icon they are promising. Then they could air TV PG on Toonami and move their Anime acquisitons exclusively to Toonami, making AS the comedy block they are discussing, but frankly I think they would need to aquire more comedies (Simpsons and King of the Hill come to mind) before they could ever make the entire AS block fully comedy. In my opinion, they should make Toonami Monday thru Thursday from 10 PM to 12 AM, and then AS comedy from 12 AM to 2:30 AM with a rerun from 2:30 AM to 5 AM.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

WS seemed to like Lupin alot from the cards they made for it :confused: http://members.aol.com/kimminakochan/chicken.gif

[Duke]

Lupin got plenty of ad-time when it first premiered, and ran in a pretty decent slot. It got it's best chance to shine, and it didn't, sadly.

[Anime Freak]

I actually bet that Lupin would've probably done better if it was part of the saturday lineup with new eppys. It would've done much better then how it did on weeknights.

[Killtacular]

Lupin got plenty of ad-time when it first premiered,
I think your memory is a little foggy.

[William C. Maune]

If I remember correctly, it got as much ad time as the average CN acquisition.

[Anime Freak]

If I recall correctly it wasn't until like 2 or 3 days before AS weeknights began that Lupin got ads, while Futurama ads were definetly a different story. :rolleyes:

[William C. Maune]

If I recall correctly it wasn't until like 2 or 3 days before AS weeknights began that Lupin got ads, while Futurama ads were definetly a different story. :rolleyes:

I thought Lupin ads started about a week before during Char's Counterattack? While Futurama did receive a lot more promotion, that's because Cartoon Network spent $10 million on Futurama. It has nothing to do with anime vs. anything else. As a general rule, networks promote things more than they've poured more money into. For comparison, they probably got all 26 Lupin episodes for about the cost of just a few Futurama episodes.

[Duke]

Not only that, but Futurama was a popular show that was grabbed from a major network. Tons of people heard about Futurama long before it came to CN, and the majority of them were pissed that it was canned. So, here comes CN to scoop it up. Of course it's going to get major promotion. Hell, if CN ever gets The Simpsons, it'll probably get more promos than The Intruder did.

[Menion420]

I don't know about that. Let's be honest, how many typical anime fans are out partying each weekend?
Me, I am 20 and every weekend its party time. Through the week though I do my college work and actually have time to watch Adultswim with some friends when we hang out at nights, but during the weekends most people in college tend to go out. still dont know why they show premieres on a weekend night.

[Beat]

Lupin was underpromoted.

The thing is though, it's not too late for any of these shows. No one watched the first time. If they were given as much chance to shine as the average ASC show, they would do great.

[Gary L Thompson]

AS seems to be getting infected with the TV ratings mindset that says if a new show isn't a mega-hit by its 3rd episode, then it's a mega-failure. But they don't bother promoting their new properties. Nor do they want to allow shows time to find their audience anymore. In the real world, you either promote aggressively or allow time for word-of-mouth to work. (^_*)
I think a great commercial touting the value of advertising that's currently running on radio sums it up perfectly: "If you have the best service or product in the world, but nobody knows about it, you only have the best service or product in the world."

[Duke]

Me, I am 20 and every weekend its party time. Through the week though I do my college work and actually have time to watch Adultswim with some friends when we hang out at nights, but during the weekends most people in college tend to go out. still dont know why they show premieres on a weekend night.
Aside from Futurama/Family Guy/ATHF and Fridays, Saturday & Sundays produce the biggest ratings on CN.

I am 20, and I don't go to parties. :P My Saturday schedule leaves only 6-7 hours to do stuff (Saturday Mornings are taken, I may watch Megas repeat if it was awesome, and then Toonami & Adult Swim).

[PearlRose86]

I don't know about that. Let's be honest, how many typical anime fans are out partying each weekend?
I don't consider myself the party-ing type, but out of the past 6 Saturdays... I wasn't home around the time AS was on for four of them. And the last one, I didn't really watch, because of what I did on Friday. And I'm close enough to AS's target demo.

I thought Saturdays would be a good time for AS, but then I started getting lots of stuff to do. Now, I'm not sure how good Saturdays are anymore.

I watch AS for the anime. I tried my absolute hardest to like the comedy, but after about 3 Sundays, the comedy really didn't grab my attention as a whole, so if AS were to get rid of the anime, I wouldn't watch anymore. In fact, if AS were to stop showing anime, I might have to rethink my involvement in anime fandom. I certiantly couldn't afford all the anime that AS has allowed me to preview before I decided if I wanted to buy them or not... nor would I want to pay $20-$30 for a DVD thinking I *might* like it.

...my two cents. Most interesting topic so far - I'll keep reading.

[Killtacular]

I thought Lupin ads started about a week before during Char's Counterattack?
The Lupin ads started the Saturday before Adult Swim moved to weeknights. Just two days of promotion. That was it.

[herbkir]

In my case, my dislike for Lupin has nothing to do with the art style. I don't find him to be a likeable character. He's not someone I want to spend my time with. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's not in rapport with these characters.

Kikaider has a dated look, but I enjoyed that series because of who the characters were, not how they were drawn. (^_*)

[Master Moron]

Matt Wilson's right, the first Lupin ad was shown Saturday night, two days before it's premiere on Monday(technically Tuesday).

I'm really sick of every person who dislikes Lupin being placed in a category that "hates old animation". I loved Mobile Suit Gundam because it had a great story. I disliked Lupin even after watching every episode that aired on Cartoon Network, because the stories made no sense, the characters did not develop, and it wasn't funny.

As for people going out on Saturday night, yeah most hardcore otakus stay in on Saturday nights. Most hardcore otakus are also purists who have already seen most of the anime that airs on Adult Swim through bootleg fansubs. I think in order to get enough viewers Cartoon Network has to target an average fan, and not just the hardcore otaku. Hell, Dragonball Z had a huge fanbase among non-otaku college students. Yu Yu Hakusho could have picked up some of those fans if they didn't air it on Saturday night when all the fans of Dragonball Z were out drinking.

[William C. Maune]

The Lupin ads started the Saturday before Adult Swim moved to weeknights. Just two days of promotion. That was it.

I'd forgotten that the last night of ASA Saturday was so close to the premiere of weeknights, my bad.

[Youko Recca]

This is the best discussion we've had in awhile. So...due to two previous posts I'd say no all the blame should be placed on the animation or Lupin's failure but...remember the people outside of us...those who judge too quickly and never give something a second look. THOSE are the people responsible for it, if you don't wish to be apart of that crowd then don't.

[Beat]

What's going to happen is simple.

(Warning- Prediction alert)

Adult Swim will eventually purge itself of all anime by systematically chopping it off of all their timeslots.

Effectively destroying Adult Swim in the process.;)

[Chad Bonin]

Personally, while I don't think Adult Swim would DIE without Action, that wouldn't be the death knoll of "adult" action on the channel. Toonami's always there, and they could actually back up their "teenage aim" with shows that ASA aims for teens (Inuyasha and other ASA show; Case Closed as it's more family than adult). AS gets it's best ratings from Comedy; can't blame them for reducing the losing half of the block for people not watching; CN didn't kill Action, lack of viewers did (While better promotion is necessary, shouldn't be the only reason there's not enough viewers. ASA should have enough viewers that will tune in and see a show without having knowledge of it on, hence why NBC puts big shows in the 9:00 Thursday slot, after Friends and Seinfeld left, there will still be viewers tuning in at that time).

Though... Adult Swim Action no longer exists, I shed no tear for lost Inuyasha/Wolf's Rain.

[Youko Recca]

Yeah but there goes FMA, SC, PA, etc. Action is still needed...Toonami can't handle everything.

[Chad Bonin]

Yeah but there goes FMA, SC, PA, etc. Action is still needed...Toonami can't handle everything.Considering most of those shows would have been aimed towards Teenagers (Adult Swim's less... adult... demographic, and Toonami's reported new demographic) on ASA, and... umm... Samurai Champloo's not even announced for ASA, and PA is... what, exactly?

[Lord Dalek]

I believe this it one of those cases where WS knows whats doing them good but isn't ready yet to apply it to anime. BS&P would tear 'em to shreads.

[JetMaster5]

I wonder how WS would react after seeing this thread...

Anyways, I too would not watch AS anymore if they cut off anime. Hell, a lot of people wouldn't watch AS because of that. Adult Swim had anime for around 3-4 years. It attracted many people to that block for a long time. If they cut off anime, they're cutting off a huge portion of their revenue. I don't think they want to risk it.

[Chad Bonin]

If by "huge portion" you mean "less than half", yes, they'd be cutting less than half of their revenue... which they would likely easily recoup by throwing some more comedy in the later hours.

[JetMaster5]

But they'd be throwing more of their own comedy shows. There wouldn't be much variety in the block. Too much of the same shows could lead to ratings disaster.

Unless WS cuts AS time from Sat.-Thurs. to Sunday only. That's the only way I can see to keep AS "fresh".

[Chad Bonin]

Oh, there's always more they could reach for. The PJs, any comedies Comedy Central have let their contracts slip, new original productions, maybe an animé non-action acquisition. AS could be all Comedy, they have just yet to do it.

[Youko Recca]

Considering most of those shows would have been aimed towards Teenagers (Adult Swim's less... adult... demographic, and Toonami's reported new demographic) on ASA, and... umm... Samurai Champloo's not even announced for ASA, and PA is... what, exactly?
Doesn't matter, Toonami isn't exactly at teen level yet. This is like saying "hey...let's wait two years so we can be considered teens...FMA hasn't lost steam has it?". It's good to think future but you gotta maintain the present, Paranoia Agent is something that would never...ever be on Toonami...where would it go?

[Nick K.]

I don't like Anime and I'd prefer AS to be Anime free because I'd find t more enjoyable. I need a good comedy block on tv and AS provides that for a while and then all this boring Anime stuff is on.

[Chad Bonin]

And Paranoia Agent is what, exactly?

Toonami's gonna get more teenagers via more teenager shows; it can't have the same schedule and gain them, nor can it become teen if all teen shows head to ASA.

[Youko Recca]

Paranoia Agent is not important right now, despite it being a genious piece of work. I agree with you on that part though. All this leads to AS needing more adult themed shows that still grab.

[Nin-Nin69]

Like I said before, they should snatch up the rights to the upcomming Van Helsing and Hellboy animated series. There are plenty of mature themes that could surround those shows if they pull it off like Spawn:TAS besides the action.

[Lord Dalek]

And Paranoia Agent is what, exactly?Paranoia Agent is a series created by Satoshi Kon that is the pure essence of akwardly paced anime. It's been the subject of a long standing argument between me and Recca in which we do battle like Kamui and Fuma*.

*This gives me an idea...

[Space Kitty]

The real bottom-line?


http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/shop/tools/img/items/SPC01ASW5012.02.jpg

[Menion420]

It would be nice if AS would actually get some decent anime. Case Closed is crap, WHR was crap, Kikaider was crap, Pilot candidate was crap.

Only good animes they have shown are Cowboy bebop, Trigun, Inuyasha, and YYH although it was sent to toonami.

Havnt even got a chance to see Wolf's rain, was licensed before i checked it out and now thats it is on tv its on Saturdays which doesnt work well for me.

There are plenty of good anime out there they could snatch up that are far more interesting than most of the stuff they show now or have shown.

They could always split off the anime into its own block at a different time and not specifically label it adult but enough to be able to show pg13 or higher. I guess that would be the new toonami, but havnt got a chance to see it yet either due to it being on saturday :sad:.

If they could get One piece, Naruto, Hellsing, Berserk, HunterxHunter, I'd like to see Prince of Tennis hit TV someday, Flame of Recca, Peacemaker Kurogane is decent, Getbackers, so many more.

If a channel were to make an anime block with these and not have them edited to hell I'm sure it would get plenty of ratings. Hell just One piece or Naruto would bring a DBZ like gathering of viewers i think.

If they can put case closed, Inuyasha, Pilot candidate on AS they can put any of these. Well maybe not PoT, but i would watch it anyways.

Dont like how Adult swim has to cater to only adult themed shows. Shonen anime are generally more enjoyable than most adult anime.

/rant off heh

[Duke]

It would be nice if AS would actually get some decent anime. Case Closed is crap, WHR was crap, Kikaider was crap, Pilot candidate was crap.
I like Case Closed and WHR, I'll have you know.

If they could get One piece, Naruto, Hellsing, Berserk, HunterxHunter, I'd like to see Prince of Tennis hit TV someday, Flame of Recca, Peacemaker Kurogane is decent, Getbackers, so many more.

Prince of Tennis...on Adult Swim...no way. It's Miguzi-bound for sure. It MIGHT go to Toonami, but it's more inclined to go to Miguzi. One Piece and Naruto will probably go to Toonami (assuming it gets here before the new millenium). Beserk, I have no idea. I'd have to actually watch it. Same with FoR and HxH. Never even heard of PK or GB.

[Master Moron]

I don't like Anime and I'd prefer AS to be Anime free because I'd find t more enjoyable. I need a good comedy block on tv and AS provides that for a while and then all this boring Anime stuff is on.

Considering your profile lists several action shows, I say that you're a perfect example as to why they should have some American action shows on Adult Swim. Clearly, there is a large divide between American comedies and Japanese action. They need some American action shows to bridge the gap. If the action shows are a mix of American and Japanese shows fans will be less likely to simply turn off the action part of the block because it's Japanese.

[Wounded_Dragon]

...American Action Shows?...That aren't blatant parodies...and are free for CN to snap up...

*sounds of crickets fill the air. Or more likely, the dreaded cicadas...*

[Meson]

Actually , I think there needs to be a parody, at least at first, to create the bridge. They can lose the parodies after that.

[Chad Bonin]

Spawn: The Animated Series would work, the upcoming Hellboy series as well.

Ya know, AS needs to get both American action and Japanese comedy on the block...

[Prism]

The only part of Adult Swim I watch is Adult Swim Action, not Adult Swim Comedy. To me, the Actionpart is far more entertaining then the Comedypart, so I hope that they don't do away with the anime. If they do however, then I'll just have to make sure to buy the shows I like on DVD or VHS. And while I like Spawn, there would have to be serious editting and censoring for a TVMA show to fit in on Adult Swim's TV14 format unless Cartoon Network ever gets the nerve up for a block of TVMA shows.

[Sketch]

It would be nice if AS would actually get some decent anime. Case Closed is crap, WHR was crap, Kikaider was crap, Pilot candidate was crap.

Back off there I love Case Closed, WHR, and Kikadier... Pilot Candidate just never should have been on Adult Swim... it was Toonami material from the get go. You don't have to like them but you shouldn't say they are crap even if they aren't your cup of tea. I'd say the only series you can call crap on ASA is REIGN. We all know it. It has it's fans still but dang if it isn't the most horrible thing ASA has ever shown.


They could always split off the anime into its own block at a different time and not specifically label it adult but enough to be able to show pg13 or higher. I guess that would be the new toonami, but havnt got a chance to see it yet either due to it being on saturday :sad:.

That's what we hope but right now Toonami is in transition... We'll see. I keep saying it's almost a joke to call it Adult Swim Action. They might as well make it Toonami the Midnight Run but still air it with the same edits and the warnings. But I'm fine with it being Adult Swim.


If they could get One piece, Naruto, Hellsing, Berserk, HunterxHunter, I'd like to see Prince of Tennis hit TV someday, Flame of Recca, Peacemaker Kurogane is decent, Getbackers, so many more.

Prince of Tennis should be on CN prime time if not Miguzi, but maybe premiere on Toonami for a month to get it noticed (or would that get it noticed).

One Piece is Toonami bound (at least at first) but it's gonna get edited like YYH.

Naruto is all but Toonami bound... if it isn't then I shudder to think where it might go.

HunterXHunter may never air in the US at this rate but maybe Viz or FUNi will pick it up... heck even ADV could pick it up but if they do then it's not likely going to be on AS or even Toonami

Peacemaker Kurogane... not sure about that one. Does anyone have it?

Getbackers is ADV correct? Anime Network it shall go.

Flame of Recca could go to either AS or Toonami IMO. It's another shonen sunday like Inuyasha and Case Closed but it could be on Toonami if Viz decides it should. Viz is sitting on the dub though and they have been for a long time.


If a channel were to make an anime block with these and not have them edited to hell I'm sure it would get plenty of ratings. Hell just One piece or Naruto would bring a DBZ like gathering of viewers i think.

That would be a ratings gold mine but the B&SP would go ape crazy on them for airing Naruto completely uncut for sure. Not sure about the others... One Piece wouldn't ever need to be over TVPG I believe.


If they can put case closed, Inuyasha, Pilot candidate on AS they can put any of these. Well maybe not PoT, but i would watch it anyways.

Can, yes. Will, no (not all of them at least). Anything in shonen jump wont end up on Adult Swim these days. It's too popular amoung younger readers/viewers. Even though these shows could easily be enjoyed by part of Adult Swim's audience, they aren't as marketable to them and that's all that matters in this biz.


Dont like how Adult swim has to cater to only adult themed shows. Shonen anime are generally more enjoyable than most adult anime.

Shonens belong on Toonami with a few exceptions. Some are too dark, too graphic, to taboo, etc. for Toonami without editing crucial parts. Such as Fullmetal Alchemist and to some extent Inuyasha and even Detective Conan. IMO Those three are all the shonen as will ever need. Two of them are very long and the other is at least twice the size as any of the short animes AS airs.

It's important to air shows that are meant for older audiences. In this case probably older teens since the culture differences make those the most acceptable "adult" material for the US given that the next step up is Hentai or close.

Adult Swim has plenty of options though. Samurai Champloo and GunGrave could be the two big hits for the next season (other than FMA of course). We'll just have to wait and see.

BTW if you like shonens so much then why don't you like Conan? It's one of the best known and most popular shonens afterall.

[The Collector]

If they could get One piece, Naruto, Hellsing, Berserk, HunterxHunter, I'd like to see Prince of Tennis hit TV someday, Flame of Recca, Peacemaker Kurogane is decent, Getbackers, so many more.There is no way that Hellsing or Berserk will ever be on AS, they're way too violent for even an "adult" oriented block. Both would have to be heavily editted, leaving nothing behind but an empty husk of the show. The only way they'd be on is if AS went to TVMA, and I don't see that happening.

[Karl Olson]

Spawn: The Animated Series would work, the upcoming Hellboy series as well.

Ya know, AS needs to get both American action and Japanese comedy on the block...


The amount Japanese comedy that's going to appeal an audience wider than the otaku/all-around animation fanbase is pretty minimal. Outside of Tenchi and FLCL, Sean and Jason have shown no interest in anything with a sense of humor. Excel Saga, and likely by extension, Abenobashi, are out. Ranma, Love Hina, Onegai Teacher and probably any other harem comedy outside of maybe, maybe Tenchi GXP, are out. I have high hopes for Keroro Gunzo, but it tonally acts more like a Cartoon Cartoon with some mild mature overtones in the humor, which makes probably too inbetween blocks for CN.

Finding a comedy that has the right balance of "cool" which AS seems to demand from all it's anime, and comedy, which has been completely optional for the anime, is hard.

[Tienshin]

If they could get One piece, Naruto, Hellsing, Berserk, HunterxHunter, I'd like to see Prince of Tennis hit TV someday, Flame of Recca, Peacemaker Kurogane is decent, Getbackers, so many more.



Peacemaker Kuragane never struck a vein with me, it started with promise and then took too long to go anywhere. Thematically and visually it could fit within Adult Swim, but I don't think it would be a good pickup for ASA in the end.

All of which is pretty much a moot point since ADV snapped up the title.

[Raziel]

What does FMA stand for?

And GitS: Ghost in the shell right?

[Tienshin]

FMA = Full Metal Alchemist.

GiTs = Ghost in the Shell (a winner is you!)

[Symp]

Toonami's gonna get more teenagers via more teenager shows; it can't have the same schedule and gain them, nor can it become teen if all teen shows head to ASA.Give me a break, there's litterally a plethora of teen oriented anime out there licensed and un-licensed that would fit the new Toonami like a glove. Just because Adult Swim snags up a few series that content wise are a bit much for the block, isn't going to suddenly keep Toonami from becoming teen oriented.

[Anime Freak]

Actually Witch Hunter Robin was a teen show and it didn't go to Toonami. Hmmmm :rolleyes:

[Sketch]

When WHR came to CN Toonami was an afternoon block for kids. That made it obviously better suited for Adult Swim.

Even now Toonami doesn't like to deal with religion (though they'll deal with some) and witch craft is out of the question. The dark themes were a bit to much for Toonami much like Inuyasha's.

[Youko Recca]

If WHR was on Toonami, the ratings would have been horible...just horrible.

[Rouge12]

Anime free by 2005? ...I don't think so.
Action gets brand new episodes of three different shows...Comedy gets one and the occasional two. Action, in June, gets 11 hours a week (without repeats) and Comedy gets 7. Action got 3 new shows so far this year and Comedy got 0. Down the road there is a lot of comedy and a lot of action. We have 2 new animes coming at the end of this year. Comedy didn't give any promotion for its new ATHF episodes this year. Action got promotion a week in advance for Case Closed, Inuyasha (2 weeks), Animatrix, Which Hunter Robin, and Wolf's Rain. Saturdays may be the least watched night on television, but maybe they feel that it can do well enough for it, or it is so shows won't get cancelled as easily.

[Menion420]

BTW if you like shonens so much then why don't you like Conan? It's one of the best known and most popular shonens afterall.
I just dont care much for the cheesy mystery series. It would have been better had they left him as an adult. Dunno havnt really watched much of it cuz it just doesnt appeal to me. The old animation might be a part of it.

[Youko Recca]

Conan is a good Shonen but I can understand Menion420's opinion when you compare it to things like Bleach and Hunter x Hunter. Let's not make each other cringe with our opinions now.

[Beat]

And now for my final thought (for the moment)

Anime has it rough on Cartoon Network. WS expects equal performance of both comedy and action, when factors keep that from happening.

First off, the BS&P. That makes sure Action starts the race with the equivalent of a hop, instead of a mad dash for the ratings. WS alientates a lot of anime fans, who don't watch Adult Swim.

Secondly, the day. Saturday is not a good day for television. In fact, it's a downright horrible day for television. The only shows that are on Saturday and live are Cops and America Most Wanted. Ask the producers of Freaks and Geeks.

Thirdly, the promotion. It's always comedy followed by action. Adult Swim includes...

Comedy.

That's it. Remember Big O II? Remember how it won the night on multiple occassions, but what just then thrown off while WS laughed about it?

Exactly my point.

Most of WS doesn't want anime, and they sure make it hard for ASA to succeed.

Detective Conan O Brien is going to fail. Watch as Sealab replaces it on weekdays. Not because it's a bad show (quite the opposite) but because it's not set up to succeed.

Any thoughts?

[Tienshin]

And now for my final thought (for the moment)

Anime has it rough on Cartoon Network. WS expects equal performance of both comedy and action, when factors keep that from happening.

Unlikely. The network is well aware that general viewer ship across ALL television outlets drops dramatically at the 12:00 hour, so realistically there is no way that they can expect action to perform on par with comedy when such a large number of viewers turn off the tube and go to bed. If anything they may be assessing actual ratings versus projected data and now that the numbers seem a bit hokey panic ensues. This is an interesting time for WS, Adult Swim is a high profile block, and we are seeing Cartoon Network as a whole as a demographically segmented entity. For anime (ASA), which is still very much a niche concept, the otaku/"more than casual fan" viewers are going to fall by the wayside unless their habits mesh with the influx of more casual viewers.

First off, the BS&P. That makes sure Action starts the race with the equivalent of a hop, instead of a mad dash for the ratings. WS alientates a lot of anime fans, who don't watch Adult Swim.

I assume you mean what the BS&P allows as passable content. If that is the case then quite frankly anyone who is silly enough to complain about edits made to shows to get them on TV versus unedited and NOT on TV are being unrealistic and frankly kind of snobby. More importantly, these types of non viewers are hurting the advancement of anime as a genre in the mainstream American market.

Secondly, the day. Saturday is not a good day for television. In fact, it's a downright horrible day for television. The only shows that are on Saturday and live are Cops and America Most Wanted. Ask the producers of Freaks and Geeks.

Saturday is a terrible day for airing first run premieres. Period. Granted the shows repeat later, but I liked the dedicated ASA block when we thought Saturday was canned and they were going to move it to Thursday.

Thirdly, the promotion. It's always comedy followed by action. Adult Swim includes...

Comedy.

That's it. Remember Big O II? Remember how it won the night on multiple occassions, but what just then thrown off while WS laughed about it?

Exactly my point.

I don’t understand your point.

Regarding promotion. From your previous posts you seem to believe that peppering the general viewing audience, which has evolved from a niche crowd and cult like status to a wider mainstream audience, with promo’s for shows they ultimately don’t like will somehow mitigate the fact that “John Q Viewer” thinks Lupin sucks (for example). That’s illogical. We see high profile failures of television shows and movies regularly. People in great numbers dictate marching orders, not the minority group of fans that appreciate a particular genre or show. Even then fans of anime are not necessarily congruent with fans of Lupin (sorry, just an example of a failed AS property, not preference.) However, getting the word out helps, but in the end the individual viewer will vote yay or nay with their remote. Does promotion help? Yes. Does even a high level of promotion define a programs success? No. Otherwise the logical conclusion would not support the success of Inuyasha, Big O, Bebop, FLCL, etc. If all of ASA is under promoted then the reason why some shows work and some don’t ultimately rests with the viewer, not the network.

Most of WS doesn't want anime, and they sure make it hard for ASA to succeed.

I have heard the talk of the Sealab crew not being on board with anime. I am not going to speculate on that, however, as I smell organizational positioning if that indeed is the case. Of course, maybe they DO think anime sucks. I don’t know.

Detective Conan O Brien is going to fail. Watch as Sealab replaces it on weekdays. Not because it's a bad show (quite the opposite) but because it's not set up to succeed.

Possibly. And if it does…put the blame where it belongs. The viewers.

[Symp]

I think if GITS and FMA end up failing it's a pretty telling sign that ASA will either need to go back to the drawing board or be taken out altogether (which I hope wouldn't be the case). Both of those shows are damn near guaranteed great ratings, but there is always that slim chance they could flop, and WS more than likely is going to keep a close eye on how those two preform and take action from there. I just hope they don't do anything too drastic between now and when those shows premier.

[Chad Bonin]

Saturday is a terrible day for airing first run premieres.Then somebody needs to tell the Toonami part of Williams Street; the block's gonna be four straight hours of premieres in June.

More importantly, these types of non viewers are hurting the advancement of anime as a genre in the mainstream American market.Bingo. Those who can't accept free edited animé are... hurting animé, not helping it.

Possibly. And if it does…put the blame where it belongs. The viewers.Bingo. While AS' promotion is lacking... without any promotion, certain shows would still get ratings (Comedy, I'm looking at you).

[Youko Recca]

What could those not accepting free edited anime do exactly?

[Tienshin]

Then somebody needs to tell the Toonami part of Williams Street; the block's gonna be four straight hours of premieres in June.

Toonami has an advantage over ASA in the sense that they do their business from 7-11...and then they are out. Though the audience may be smaller by virtue of it being Saturday, the target is audience seems to still be around in numbers to justify the block, both in effort expended to put out the product and returns in the form of ratings.

The demos certainly cross over but different measurements of WHO is watching Toonami vs. ASA skew CN's bottom line towards indifference (kenshin is a great example regarding Toonami). Still, I dont like the once a week Toonami setup either. It strikes me as a corporate move to maximize the bottom line. I can appreciate that viewpoint, but as a fan, getting one days worth of goodness versus five times a week doesn't mesh with my TV viewing agenda.

But that's my personal view on Toonami, which is offtopic here, but maybe we'll get into that on your board. *hint* :)

[Lord Dalek]

What could those not accepting free edited anime do exactly?Most people who merely watch anime on tv are much more "normal" than us, otakus. Therefore they could learn macrame, write books, run for congress, etc.

[Bandit]

Am I the only one who watches (most) of the anime and the comedy happily? On Satuday, I love to tune in for an hour and a half of Inuyasha, Wolf's Rain, and FLCL and then on Sunday I can't wait to see the newest Birdman or ATHF...

When Big O II (and I? I can't remember) was on on Sunday night before the
comedy, I watched both through. That was :cool:

And, personally, I think Samurai Champloo will bring ASA out of the gutter again. If CN advertises this series on other networks with good promos, I have no doubt a ton of people will tune in to watch. Wolf's Rain made ME watch ASA again (after a number of months of ignoring it because I found WHR boring), but I think Samurai Champloo could do it for a lot of other people.

[Pepperidge]

I doubt anime will vanish completely, but it is definitely staggering due to limitations. At the very least, GitS: SAC and Samurai Champloo should prove to be successful adult anime on AS. However, it seems that beyond that, some changes are going to have to be made if they ever want to find quality adult programming for the block:

1) Get TV-MA. I'm not saying that allowing the rating would make the block more "adult", but let's face it: a lot of the best shows are simply unairable without a TV-MA rating. They have to find a way to abolish this asinine restriction.

2) ADV shows. It also seems that a good hunk of the shows that would be PERFECT for Adult Swim just happen to be in the hands of ADV who insist on hoarding shows for their own dead-end station. While I realize that they're still pitching to CN, the fact that the station has yet to air any ADV properties leads me to believe that either party isn't all that enthusiastic about it.

[Duke]

Am I the only one who watches (most) of the anime and the comedy happily? On Satuday, I love to tune in for an hour and a half of Inuyasha, Wolf's Rain, and FLCL and then on Sunday I can't wait to see the newest Birdman or ATHF...
I like both blocks too. Conan & ATHF are currently my most anticipated series on Adult Swim.

[Master Moron]

Bingo. Those who can't accept free edited animé are... hurting animé, not helping it.


While I agree with you and Tienshin that anime fans refusing to watch Adult Swim because it's edited are hurting the advancement of anime in America, I don't think that was Beatdigga's point. I think Beatdigga is saying that fans would be turned off by editing and may watch Adult Swim less because of it. And I don't think he's talking just about hardcore fans. I think casual viewers would be more likely to watch ASA if there was more sex, violence, and fowl language. I mean, why do you think South Park is so popular? If Comedy Central suddenly started getting editing happy it's ratings would go down the toilet. Anyway, the point is that there still seems to be a big discrepancy between the editing standards of the action shows and the comedy shows. I still have yet to see an action show use the s word despite the comedy shows using it.

As for American shows, well, if the Buffy animated series ever gets made I think it would be a great fit for Adult Swim. Otherwise, they can always make an original action show for Adult Swim. Though, it might be hard to do with a limited budget...

[Youko Recca]

"Normal" watchers don't know what they're missing in the first place so they can't really care. Can you really blame otakus and others for refusing to watch?...they would just rather take uncut than edited...can't place blame on them for that particular reason.

[Tapout]

I don't like edits, but I can live with them. All they've done for me is inspire me to go buy the DVDs of Blue Gender and Rurouni Kenshin.

[Mackaybear]

Well with AS putting up those cards of Comedy numbers vs Action numbers and threatening to replace some action with comedy. It does make me nervous. And beginning to think AS isn't really "behind" airing anime. Less promotion and it seems like less "chances" to succeed. But this is my own opinion not backed by facts.


Maybe they don't yet realize that their ambivalence towards anime is showing. And maybe turning off fans in the process. Why watch an episodic mulit part series if you're not sure it's gonna stay on? Or if you miss an episode that you can see it run again? I'm beginning to think a bit more of a cohesive vision by the WS staff towards AS would do wonders. I like the more irreverent mixing of shows though. But some of these shows don't really have much action to them.

I'm not sure I'm happy with the current CN slavish chasing of "set in stone" demographics.
There are a lot of current and older shows both comedy and action that would fit AS. If they'd only be a bit more flexable in what they choose to air.

Ok that's my somewhat erratic view on it all.

[livingfruitvirus]

I doubt anime will vanish completely, but it is definitely staggering due to limitations. At the very least, GitS: SAC and Samurai Champloo should prove to be successful adult anime on AS. However, it seems that beyond that, some changes are going to have to be made if they ever want to find quality adult programming for the block:

1) Get TV-MA. I'm not saying that allowing the rating would make the block more "adult", but let's face it: a lot of the best shows are simply unairable without a TV-MA rating. They have to find a way to abolish this asinine restriction.

2) ADV shows. It also seems that a good hunk of the shows that would be PERFECT for Adult Swim just happen to be in the hands of ADV who insist on hoarding shows for their own dead-end station. While I realize that they're still pitching to CN, the fact that the station has yet to air any ADV properties leads me to believe that either party isn't all that enthusiastic about it.
Maybe ADV is sending out all their dud properties and holding the juicy good shows like RahXephon back for the Anime Network. They do tend to license a lot of crap. They even pitch shows to Tech TV, and so far they have yet to acquire anything from ADV as well.

For someone who doesn't even watch CN, you sure enjoy keeping tabs on them.

[wrenchien]

i think it would be a bad idea if adult swim removed anime completely... because if they did, the williams staff would have to work a lot more to air shows. make lots of new ones. and they like sleeping in late, slumbering in their beds protected by their giant combat pain-causing droids that laugh humorlessly at the destruction of all trespassers, preferbably grossly, and with lots of pocket knives and triple kitana blades and the streets will flow with the blood of the nonbelievers....

i'm so sorry. after 18 days of inactivity my ability to make off the wall posts is kinda shot.

[Youko Recca]

Wait..some of you make a commitment to an anime? Hell I miss one episode and it's no big deal, just catch the reruns.

[Jaguar]

But isn't that still kind of like making a commitment? ;)

[Youko Recca]

No..cause if it was you wouldn't have missed it in the first place. I am talking about SERIOUS commitment here not basic.

[Jaguar]

Oh, like "SCREW YOU TIVO I CAN REMEMBER TO WATCH THIS MASELF!!11 :D" commitment.

[Youko Recca]

Oh, like "SCREW YOU TIVO I CAN REMEMBER TO WATCH THIS MASELF!!11 :D" commitment.more along the lines of...crying after missing one episode.

[True Noir]

Only reason I come to AS and watch it is cause of the anime. So if anime is gone by 2005 then .... no more AS for me.

[Beat]

The point is simple. No one's going to watch a show they have to go out of their way to watch.

It's Saturday. Party night. Who's going to make a point to stay at home and watch ASA when there's a party at a friend's house, a club, or a frat? Few.

It's Sunday. The day before the start of the work week. Most are at home. What's on TV? Why it's the Aqua Teen Hunger Force!:rolleyes:

The edits, time, lack of promotion, and general attitude combine to form a "perfect storm" of factors that hinder ASA. And Williams Street needs to realize that.

Despite all this, ASA still won against ASC two weeks ago.

Food for thought, eh?

[Tapout]

It's Saturday. Party night. Who's going to make a point to stay at home and watch ASA when there's a party at a friend's house, a club, or a frat? Few.
While I don't have any friends, wouldn't be caught dead in a club, and don't think there's a frat within 150 miles of here, I wouldn't be any of those places had I the opportunity anyway. I think quite a few of the ASA fans, who seem to be more 'hardcore' than the ASC fans are the same way. I'm sure most people go out more than I do, but I think relatively few of us are out on an almost weekly basis.

[SpiritualRemain]

Since I couldn't sleep and I've been putting this off, I might as well say it now.

Why doesn't AOLTW invest in their own licensing and distribution of anime? LFV brought up some good points earlier in the thread about how they do not see any of the money made off of the merchandise of shows that aren't their properties. Now, more than ever, there is little reason that they couldn't pick up an anime or two and show it on their networks. Until Sony picked up Cyborg 009, none of the MPAA member studios had picked up an anime series. While Sony's home video marketting of 009 is questionable at best, since we are almost four months after the release of the first set of videos without a solicitation for another set, the precident has been set. AOLTW has an even better position than Sony does with their multiple television networks and vast amount of people to market to through their online services. They can't say that anime hasn't been proven for them, with the successes of Dragonball Z, Pokemon, and Yu-Gi-Oh on their networks. One major acquisition combined with a marketting campaign could prove very successful for them.

[SpaceCowboy]

WS should reformat the action block and change its name to something like "Anime Swim" (ala Tech TV's block) and air anime from any genre and stuff that's even middle-ground in addition to adult-oriented, while still making it resemble Adult Swim with warnings, TV-14 editing, and ads for the comedy block.

[Karl Olson]

Maybe ADV is sending out all their dud properties and holding the juicy good shows like RahXephon back for the Anime Network. They do tend to license a lot of crap. They even pitch shows to Tech TV, and so far they have yet to acquire anything from ADV as well.

For someone who doesn't even watch CN, you sure enjoy keeping tabs on them.

Funny, Kyle Pope's said the same thing about ADV perhaps holding stuff back.

ADV's official statement is that they are pitching anything and everything that wouldn't take a lot of rework for the particular block on CN. Given that, I'd probably chalk it u the lack of ADV shows on CN to the fact that a lot ADV's shows are lacking any "cool" factor, which seems to be the drive behind a good portion of AS' anime aquisitions. I don't think there is anything that ADV has, in their high-grade or low-grade series, that's going to seem broad enough or cool enough for CN to bite on it.

[livingfruitvirus]

WS should reformat the action block and change its name to something like "Anime Swim" (ala Tech TV's block) and air anime from any genre and stuff that's even middle-ground in addition to adult-oriented, while still making it resemble Adult Swim with warnings, TV-14 editing, and ads for the comedy block.
I think that's slowly but steadily becoming the case. They always referred to their anime programming as "action" before but more and more these days it's being referred to simply as anime. They even said they acquired Saturday for "anime programming."

[Menion420]

WS should reformat the action block and change its name to something like "Anime Swim" (ala Tech TV's block) and air anime from any genre and stuff that's even middle-ground in addition to adult-oriented, while still making it resemble Adult Swim with warnings, TV-14 editing, and ads for the comedy block.
If they did this the anime they could air a ton of good anime.

[livingfruitvirus]

You know, I'd probably hate anime too if I had to constantly deal with the infinite amount of obnoxious, annoying fans it brings.

[Youko Recca]

Going by that logic you'd have to hate...everything?

[livingfruitvirus]

Going by that logic you'd have to hate...everything?
You can't find non-rational people who argue about why their favorite show is on or off the air because they want to **** the main character everywhere.

[Mugen]

I think that's slowly but steadily becoming the case. They always referred to their anime programming as "action" before but more and more these days it's being referred to simply as anime. They even said they acquired Saturday for "anime programming."
I'm sure they want some original American action shows on AS, but don't they have just Flash-size budgets? Unless WBA makes a superhero show for AS, it looks like it'll be awhile. Maybe they can get new episodes of Spawn if HBO passes it up.

[Cap'n Sean Goncherman]

Can we PLEASE get a thread that be more than 7 pages long that I could even consider boxing? PLEASE!?

Look at me. A pirate; reduced to sayin' please.

[Youko Recca]

You can't find non-rational people who argue about why their favorite show is on or off the air because they want to **** the main character everywhere.
Let's take a step back to the obnoxious part, you can find an one of those types anywhere...I guess anime fans just...um....EXPLOIT it?

[livingfruitvirus]

I'm sure they want some original American action shows on AS, but don't they have just Flash-size budgets? Unless WBA makes a superhero show for AS, it looks like it'll be awhile. Maybe they can get new episodes of Spawn if HBO passes it up.I'd like to see some homegrown action shows too. NOT from WBA though. They don't need to get their sticky creative fingers on AS like they have done to the rest of Cartoon Network. As for budget, yeah. That's also a problem. Cartoon Network seems to only allow Adult Swim to earn so much money, and if they profit beyond that, all of that profit money goes to fund the kids' programming regardless of whether they earned it or not. And Spawn? That's really a TV-MA show. Not to mention a show has less of a chance of surviving on CN if it's a 3rd party series.

Let's take a step back to the obnoxious part, you can find an one of those types anywhere...I guess anime fans just...um....EXPLOIT it?Yes. Much like fans of Insane Clown Posse.

[Bandit]

Hmm, you guys know what could be interesting? Azumanga Daioh (the anime) has episodes that are broken up into 3 (or 2? can't remember) parts each. As far as I know, there are no Azumanga haters out there and there are even some people who like Azumanga only and "hate" all other anime.

While it's not adult by any means really, it's still a good comedy series. That would be kinda cool to have Adult Swim break up episodes of Azumanga and show them on Sunday, or something.

However, it is an ADV property...

[Karl Olson]

Hmm, you guys know what could be interesting? Azumanga Daioh (the anime) has episodes that are broken up into 3 (or 2? can't remember) parts each. As far as I know, there are no Azumanga haters out there and there are even some people who like Azumanga only and "hate" all other anime.

While it's not adult by any means really, it's still a good comedy series. That would be kinda cool to have Adult Swim break up episodes of Azumanga and show them on Sunday, or something.

However, it is an ADV property...


1. There are people who dislike Azumanga (Matt Wilson isn't fond of it IIRC.)

2. Azumanga being owned by ADV isn't a problem (regardless of what the conspiracy theorists board would like to think.) Sean and Jason's/CN Aquisitions Exec's pattern of buying anime because they have a cool atmosphere first and foremost (rather than general watchability) is.

3. It (like most everything ADV owns) sits squarely between demographics, and has very little crosstalk with 18-34, exempting anime fans and people who have been introduced to it in more controlled environs than flipping through channels.

[Bandit]

1. There are people who dislike Azumanga (Matt Wilson isn't fond of it IIRC.)

2. Azumanga being owned by ADV isn't a problem (regardless of what the conspiracy theorists board would like to think.) Sean and Jason's/CN Aquisitions Exec's pattern of buying anime because they have a cool atmosphere first and foremost (rather than general watchability) is.

3. It (like most everything ADV owns) sits squarely between demographics, and has very little crosstalk with 18-34, exempting anime fans and people who have been introduced to it in more controlled environs than flipping through channels.Well... Matt isn't really fond of a lot of stuff, and it wouldn't hurt to be "daring" trying with an anime comedy in the way I described. It would (probably?) be cheaper than putting money forward for a new, higher production-quality series (like Family Guy) to license an anime, but certainly not cheaper than creating their own 7 minute comedy shows

[Karl Olson]

Well... Matt isn't really fond of a lot of stuff, and it wouldn't hurt to be "daring" trying with an anime comedy in the way I described. It would (probably?) be cheaper than putting money forward for a new, higher production-quality series (like Family Guy) to license an anime, but certainly not cheaper than creating their own 7 minute comedy shows

Actually, licencing is probably less expensive in the short term. However, seeing as the only they ever get from it ad money, they never the secondary boost from retail sales of merch and dvds from the anime.

If they want to be daring with an anime comedy, they should get one that wouldn't need an excessive amount of explanation, and the fact is, as much as I like Azumanga, it's very Japan-centric in it's humor at points, and the references aren't particularly messaged for the dub IIRC. Meanwhile, finding a comedic anime that isn't heavily entwined in the culture is much easier said than done (CN's found only 4 or 5 action comedy anime that cut the mustard,) and even when a series is a bit more universal in it's humor, that doesn't mean it's that good (see: Onegai Twins, Hand Maid Mai, Love Hina, etc.) Add to that CN seems to like their anime shows to be cool in some way, and the number of cool, non-Japancentric, actually funny to people outside of the fandom series is pretty small.

It'd almost be nice if they got a hold of a bunch of first episodes of the comedic anime series if they are interested in it, because then they can test them like they do the ASC pilots. Granted, they'd have to promote the event first.

[Menion420]

I'd like to see some homegrown action shows too. NOT from WBA though. They don't need to get their sticky creative fingers on AS like they have done to the rest of Cartoon Network. As for budget, yeah. That's also a problem. Cartoon Network seems to only allow Adult Swim to earn so much money, and if they profit beyond that, all of that profit money goes to fund the kids' programming regardless of whether they earned it or not. And Spawn? That's really a TV-MA show. Not to mention a show has less of a chance of surviving on CN if it's a 3rd party series.
Only thing about homegrown action shows is they would probally need to come from a comic book to be any good. From just anime in general its usually only good if the manga is good. though i think cowboy bebop was anime only? maybe im wrong, but anyways thats one in the few thats good without having something before it to base the show on.

I would really like to see some more american comic books animated into more adult themed shows.

[Nick K.]

Considering your profile lists several action shows, I say that you're a perfect example as to why they should have some American action shows on Adult Swim. Clearly, there is a large divide between American comedies and Japanese action. They need some American action shows to bridge the gap. If the action shows are a mix of American and Japanese shows fans will be less likely to simply turn off the action part of the block because it's Japanese.

I agree. American Action Cartoons would rule... but they have Toonami for that... but they show Japanese Action there too and there isnt any american action anywhere really. I want them to bring back Batman, Superman, BB & other shows but.. well.... they suck.

[shogunthethird]

I heard a rumor a while back about studio Gonzo (hellsing) possibly producing an anime based of Mike Mignola's Hellboy comic and having seen the movie I can't help but think that would be a lock for ASA, for that matter Hellsing itself would work on ASA, I mean we've already got (more or less) werewolves

[ClockStomper]

AS needs to step up on getting more intense/violent series. Nothing premired in 2004 is anything a 10 year old can't handle. If GITS gets a good promotional push (not bloody likley) it could get Bebop-ian numbers.The fact that Brak reruns got heavier promotion than Conan was *****ing ridiculous.

[Nin-Nin69]

Once again ASA does not have to be 100% anime. Throw in some US action cartoons from movie or comic licences that could fit the standards and attract the AS fans that hate Japanese Anime. Van Helsing, Hellboy, Riddick, Punisher, ect.

Still both WS and CN have to get their act together with promoting their new and bigger shows or events. The ASA block, Animatrix, Detective Conan, Starcrossed, even new ATHF all got shunned from advertizing. The fact that Starcrossed was never advertized boggles me since it's the final episode to JL:TAS and one of their highest rated shows.

[livingfruitvirus]

Once again ASA does not have to be 100% anime. Throw in some US action cartoons from movie or comic licences that could fit the standards and attract the AS fans that hate Japanese Anime. Van Helsing, Hellboy, Riddick, Punisher, ect.Why do we have to make people like it? They don't have to like it.

edit- Misread your post, but my point stands in other methods. I doubt thought it would be acquired unless it were a DC book, and if it were 3rd party, CN wouldn't want to pick up most of the bill on that one since they wouldn't be able to make money off of it except for commercial ads. Who knows though. Adult Swim has taken chances with their shows. They might give a whole new action series a go.

Still both WS and CN have to get their act together with promoting their new and bigger shows or events. The ASA block, Animatrix, Detective Conan, Starcrossed, even new ATHF all got shunned from advertizing. The fact that Starcrossed was never advertized boggles me since it's the final episode to JL:TAS and one of their highest rated shows.Animatrix was a one-time thing and it wasn't going to generate much money for CN anyway so they probably figured giving it more than one week of ads was pointless. And before you say "But, but, it's the Matrix!", man the Matrix hype is so done. Over a million people own The Animatrix already anyway. Detective Conan was cheap and only needs to get so much in the ratings department to succeed, but yeah, surprised there weren't that many ads for it til the very weekend before. Nutty. And Starcrossed? Never advertised?! It felt like I couldn't turn on CN without seeing an ad for Starcrossed. I even remember Peter Cullen's "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

And Azumanga Daioh? It's just a bunch of cute high school girls making goofy faces.

[Nin-Nin69]

And Starcrossed? Never advertised?! It felt like I couldn't turn on CN without seeing an ad for Starcrossed. I even remember Peter Cullen's "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
Funny, how come I never saw one promo?

[livingfruitvirus]

Watch Miguzi much?

[Eddie G.]

Funny, how come I never saw one promo?LFV is more or less correct, Starcrossed did get pretty good advertising. I think 3-7:30 on Cartoon Network yesterday might as well be called, COUNTDOWN TO STARTCROSSED. And while it only recieved advertising a week in advance it was a week of lots of advertising.

Anyway I could see anime not airing earlier than one a.m. on Adult Swim in late 2005 (I'm pretty sure I came up with the 2005 date, while someone else said 2006 could lead to the end of AS action in last week's Anything Else thread). This would only happen if two factors happened and one factor was true. If AS aquires some new comedies and maybe getting new episodes of some old shows (New episodes of Mission Hill or The Oblongs doesn't seem that impossible, unlikely though. And even if it did happen we wouldn't see these episodes to 2006.), the new AS originals are really really popular, current AS series sustain their fanbase and ratings. Also new AS anime would have to fail or do below average. Finally WS would have to really have something against anime, and until one of use can do more than at best make an educated guess, I won't say if they do or don't.

Anyway I doubt AS will be anime free by 2005, or even 2006. I could see however AS getting to a point where adult anime was gone or the two were split into two blocks

Frankly I wouldn't mind seeing AS being only for comedy, and AS action becoming Seikagami. It might actually work out better.

[Tapout]

What is Starcrossed? I flip back and forth between Around the Horn and Totally Spies every day and watch Teen Titans in its entirety and haven't seen one promo for it.

[Nin-Nin69]

Watch Miguzi much?I turned that on and off during the week, never caught it once. However I have been watching part of CN Primetime and AS. I know that JL was heavly advertized when they were on SVES during these times, but I never saw it once. So it was only during parts of Miguzi and before 3 PM on Saturday? That still boggles me as to why Primtime and AS got cut short where older audiences that appreciate the show get cut out.

This is for Dirtbag: Starcrossed was the finaly to Justice League The Animated Series. After this was to air, there would be promotions for the new Justice League series on CN.

[avmoghe]

I pray to God that they get rid of anime from adult swim or toonami.. atleast the serious stuff.

This way they can stop the horrendous edits and the dubbing.. they're ruining Gundam seed right now.

I am of the opinion that if they cant show anime uncut and subtitled, they shouldn't show it..

If they are really really desperate.. let them stick to stuff like that hamster show or dragonball

just my two cents.

[Duke]

I am of the opinion that if they cant show anime uncut and subtitled, they shouldn't show it..
I'm sure that when American cartoons are shown in Japan they're subtitled too.

[Nobuyuki sama]

I'm sure that when American cartoons are shown in Japan they're subtitled too.
Too subtle for this crowd, Duke. ;)

[Samurai]

I'm sure that when American cartoons are shown in Japan they're subtitled too.
Cartoon Network is shown in English in Japan...

[Pepperidge]

No it isn't.

[Samurai]

Yes it is, it's available in both English and Japanese...

[Master Moron]

And before you say "But, but, it's the Matrix!", man the Matrix hype is so done. Over a million people own The Animatrix already anyway.

That's kind of a silly thing to say. I still remember back when NBC first aired Jurassic Park. They aired ads for it constantly even though millions of people(myself included) had it on video. I was astonished to discover everyone talking about Jurassic Park the next day at school. Even my mom watched Jurassic Park on NBC despite owning the video. I never really understood the appeal of movies everyone already owns on video on TV, but they usually are advertised quite a bit more than CN does. I have no idea how they do in the ratings though...

By the way, I'm sure whatever network gets Lord of the Rings will advertise the **** out of it despite everyone already owning the DVDs.

[Mackaybear]

So what if you don't watch Miguzi? Does that mean CN doesn't care about you at all? In terms of ads and promos or come to think about it anything at all.


I find those particular cartoons extremely not to my taste. Though I do like Teen Titans. But I've already seen them all, or at least all that have been shown so far.

[Avenger772]

I personally could do without the anime. I dont really watch the stuff they show nowadays. However, my brother does and when i see him watching, i see that it is dubbed and probably edited. If this is suppose to be a time for adults, why are still editing? As far as dubbing goes, I do realize some people are too lazy to try to read and watch the show but it would be more accurate than the stuff the voice actors spew.

[Eddie G.]

I'm sure that when American cartoons are shown in Japan they're subtitled too.Not to mention a lot of anime is edited in Japan too, including Cowboy Bebop.

[Samurai]

Not to mention a lot of anime is edited in Japan too, including Cowboy Bebop.
Actually, with few exceptions like in some instances in Midori no Hibi or Gundam SEED, most anime is NOT edited because the creators know the limits beforehand and create anime to suit the tastes of the TV censors. By law though, all nudity must be covered up. Hence why a lot of hentai have that furry blocks.

Still, most anime is not edited like it is on US airways.

[lostrune]

Yes it is, it's available in both English and Japanese...

But no subtitles? :D


That's kind of a silly thing to say. I still remember back when NBC first aired Jurassic Park. They aired ads for it constantly even though millions of people(myself included) had it on video. I was astonished to discover everyone talking about Jurassic Park the next day at school. Even my mom watched Jurassic Park on NBC despite owning the video. I never really understood the appeal of movies everyone already owns on video on TV,

It's like the book club - it gets everyone to do the same thing together, so everyone has something in common to talk about. :shrug:


However, my brother does and when i see him watching, i see that it is dubbed and probably edited. If this is suppose to be a time for adults, why are still editing? As far as dubbing goes, I do realize some people are too lazy to try to read and watch the show but it would be more accurate than the stuff the voice actors spew.

For recent adult swim? No and no. Thanks for trying though.
IIRC, Inuyasha and Wolf's Rain (so far) are unedited now. Heck, in Case Closed which is also unedited, the dub actually improves the script a bit by making stuff clearer and even covering up some holes. Heh, it helps when one actually takes the effort to compare. :)


Actually, with few exceptions like in some instances in Midori no Hibi

Yeah, the case of Midori no Hibi is weird. IIRC, it was edited on Japanese satellite from its unedited broadcast version. :confused:

[Duke]

That's kind of a silly thing to say. I still remember back when NBC first aired Jurassic Park. They aired ads for it constantly even though millions of people(myself included) had it on video. I was astonished to discover everyone talking about Jurassic Park the next day at school. Even my mom watched Jurassic Park on NBC despite owning the video. I never really understood the appeal of movies everyone already owns on video on TV, but they usually are advertised quite a bit more than CN does. I have no idea how they do in the ratings though...

By the way, I'm sure whatever network gets Lord of the Rings will advertise the **** out of it despite everyone already owning the DVDs.
It's kinda like indirectly sitting in a movie theater. You've heard the whole speil about how it's more enjoyable to watch TV with friends/family than yourself, and if you watch a big-name movie on a broadcast network, you can kinda feel like you're connecting with a huge number of people in the world, even if you're watching it alone.

[herbkir]

AS has had its best successes with a mix of comedy and anime. They should stick with that winning approach. People who come for the anime may stick around for the comedy, and vice versa.

Anime has a place on AS. Anime is growing in popularity, especially among the targeted young-adult demographic. But rather than trying to pick up anime based on whether it will appeal to the target demo, AS should concentrate on finding shows that tell good stories about characters we viewers can become involved with. If you find those shows, it won't matter what age group they supposedly are targeted to, the desired viewers will come.

A check around the animation fanboards will uncover tons of suggestions for shows worth looking into. Forget the "cool" factor, it's the story and characters that bring people in. (^_*)

[guinaevere]

American produced comedies, since there aren't that many available to them, and they don't have that many episodes. There will always be product manufactured to fulfil the needs. In this case, I become more than a tad cynical and also add, there's no shortage of garbage. In any medium. And just as there's no shortage of non-talented shows there's plenty of folks to watch 'em...

nothing to be proud of (Hamtaro<snip> Hey hey hey! Don't mess with Hamtaro. I suppose the cute factor is the big turnoff to so many of you fellas, but that's no reason to dismiss the ham hams entirely.

I personally feel the ball has been dropped on everything CN sans Miguzi & Fridays. Seeing as that's where the key-marketed viewers, and consequently, the big advertising money is spent, that makes sense.

Though... Adult Swim Action no longer exists, I shed no tear for lost <snip>Wolf's Rain. Oh you guys are just killing me.

But they'd be throwing more of their own comedy shows. There wouldn't be much variety in the block. Too much of the same shows could lead to ratings disaster. Could, but probably won't. MTV anyone?

It would be nice if AS would actually get some decent anime. Case Closed is crap, WHR was crap, Kikaider was crap, Pilot candidate was crap.

Only good animes they have shown are Cowboy bebop, Trigun, Inuyasha, and YYH although it was sent to toonami. I could be totally wrong, but I'm guessing you like a faster paced, violent show. :D

...American Action Shows?...That aren't blatant parodies...and are free for CN to snap up...

*sounds of crickets fill the air. Or more likely, the dreaded cicadas...* There's always my beloved Samurai Jack... he seems to have lost a home. In more ways than one...

Spawn: The Animated Series would work oh, ick. How about WildC.A.T.S.?

WS should reformat the action block and change its name to something like "Anime Swim" How about Adult Swim Anime? A change as simple as that, marketed properly, could be very successful.

Look at me. A pirate; reduced to sayin' please. ah-Har! Ye be my hero, Cap'n!!

Funny, how come I never saw one promo? Unlike LFV, I wasn't bombarded by it. But I did see it. Two times. Lucky me. But truth be told, it was the title under Mr Maunes avi that reminded me to watch & tape it.

Now, to respond to the initial focus of this thread. So long as AS aires quality shows, I'll watch. It just so happens that aside from Home Movies, I can't find any of the ASComedy line up even remotely humerous. And as HM isn't currently part of their programming, I don't tune in for ASC at all these days.

But, I don't watch all of ASAction, either. Just the ones I like. When they start a new series, I give it a shot. Those I don't care for, I stop watching.

[Sketch]

Calling it AS Anime would make much more sense. Then they could air more anime comedies and anime dramas with no action at all. Opening up more possibilities all around.

[Duke]

Hey hey hey! Don't mess with Hamtaro. I suppose the cute factor is the big turnoff to so many of you fellas, but that's no reason to dismiss the ham hams entirely.
Hamtaro isn't a bad show. It's just not a Toonami show.

Now, to respond to the initial focus of this thread. So long as AS aires quality shows, I'll watch. It just so happens that aside from Home Movies, I can't find any of the ASComedy line up even remotely humerous. And as HM isn't currently part of their programming, I don't tune in for ASC at all these days.

But, I don't watch all of ASAction, either. Just the ones I like. When they start a new series, I give it a shot. Those I don't care for, I stop watching.
Home Movies: Sundays at 1:30AM.

[guinaevere]

Thanks for the HM info, Duke!

And I understand the clarification about Hamtaro. Obviously it doesn't belong on Toonami, but it's a fun show and in an early morning/early afternoon slot, it's fine.

[William C. Maune]

Because it was on Toonami, I watched many of the Hamtaro episodes. While it doesn't fit Toonami, I thought it was a dang fine show for the younger demographic and Jingle was awesome. Although, I think my fiance is disturbed by the number of Ham-Hams I can name off the top of my head.

As for "AS Anime," while there may not really be any viable American action cartoons for the slot at the moment, I'd like to leave that possibility open. As for opening it up to more non-actionish shows, I think they may be already with Case Closed. For instance, the bumpers for Case Closed seem to be distinguished from the rest of the action bumpers and they aren't airing CC on their Saturday night action block.

[Discloner]

As for "AS Anime," while there may not really be any viable American action cartoons for the slot at the moment, I'd like to leave that possibility open.
I agree.

I honestly don't see much more appeal to calling the block Adult Swim Anime, as apposed to Adult Swim Action, other then it's more specific. From my stand point, renaming the block 'Anime' would only limit their programming in the future, effectively boxing themselves into an Anime programming restriction.

Had Toonami been aimed only at anime after its creation, Johnny Quest, Thunder Cats, ReBoot, Justice Leauge, Jackie Chan, Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, Cartoon Roulette, G.I. Joe, Superfriends, Samurai Jack, and a few others wouldn't have shown up on the block. While its safe to say the choices for ASA american programming is slim to non-existant, I wouldn't count it out in the future.

As for the whole 'AS Hates Anime and wishes to kill it' mentality. I think some of you are just overreacting to a couple late promos and bad ratings.

[Gary L Thompson]

...American Action Shows?...That aren't blatant parodies...and are free for CN to snap up...

*sounds of crickets fill the air. Or more likely, the dreaded cicadas...*Good point. The only one I can recall is "Invasion America". I think you have to go all the way back to "Jonny Quest" to find another quality animated action show in American prime time. (Great Britain had one great animated prime time show in the 1960s, the supermarionated "Thunderbirds", but it died when an American network didn't pick it up. Pity.)

Maybe the best thing for American animators to do would be a straight adaptation of printed material, like Tom Clancy novels, or comic strips like Dick Tracy or Steve Canyon, to cut their teeth on prime time action shows before tackling their own original stories like "Invasion America". Or maybe they should hire some Japanese animators to mentor them in how it's done.

Actually , I think there needs to be a parody, at least at first, to create the bridge. They can lose the parodies after that.Not a bad idea, but which shows exactly? ("Galaxy Angel" leaps to mind, but it's more like a pure Looney Tunes farce than actual parody. Maybe shows like "Nadesico" or "Irresponsible Captain Tylor" would fit the bill better in the way of a drama/comedy mix. Or if they want to do their own original show, they might consider adapting the comic strip "Wolff and Byrd, Counselors of the Macabre".)

I just dont care much for the cheesy mystery series. It would have been better had they left him as an adult. Dunno havnt really watched much of it cuz it just doesnt appeal to me. The old animation might be a part of it.If the show is still airing in Japan, I think calling the animation "old" is a bit absurd. It's more like the show's style is idiosyncratic for anime (though I fancy there is a strong resemblance to "Hamtaro" in the way they render faces).

Most of WS doesn't want anime, and they sure make it hard for ASA to succeed.

Detective Conan O Brien is going to fail. Watch as Sealab replaces it on weekdays. Not because it's a bad show (quite the opposite) but because it's not set up to succeed.

Any thoughts?My hopeful thought is that you're way off base, my pessimistic fear is that you're dead on. My firm conviction is the Menion420's distaste for Detective Conan's type of whodunit historically does not represent most American TV viewers. Unfortunately, myopic American TV execs may well prevent "Case Closed" from being the runaway monster hit that it could be, because it will be aimed at Menion420's demographic, rather than the mainstream primetime audience that is the show's natural home.

Toonami has an advantage over ASA in the sense that they do their business from 7-11...and then they are out. Though the audience may be smaller by virtue of it being Saturday, the target is audience seems to still be around in numbers to justify the block, both in effort expended to put out the product and returns in the form of ratings.

The demos certainly cross over but different measurements of WHO is watching Toonami vs. ASA skew CN's bottom line towards indifference (kenshin is a great example regarding Toonami). Still, I dont like the once a week Toonami setup either. It strikes me as a corporate move to maximize the bottom line. I can appreciate that viewpoint, but as a fan, getting one days worth of goodness versus five times a week doesn't mesh with my TV viewing agenda.

But that's my personal view on Toonami, which is offtopic here, but maybe we'll get into that on your board. *hint* :)Personally, I think long-range the logical course would be to expand Toonami to weekdays, where it could serve as a bridge between Miguzi and AS.

I don't like edits, but I can live with them. All they've done for me is inspire me to go buy the DVDs of Blue Gender and Rurouni Kenshin.Personally, I've never had much problem with editing for broadcast standards and practices, as long as the show isn't cut to the point of insensibility. What I can't stand is wholesale arbitrary changes in an anime just for the sake of changes ("Cardcaptors" and "Escaflowne" being prime exhibits No. 1).

AS has had its best successes with a mix of comedy and anime. They should stick with that winning approach. People who come for the anime may stick around for the comedy, and vice versa.

Anime has a place on AS. Anime is growing in popularity, especially among the targeted young-adult demographic. But rather than trying to pick up anime based on whether it will appeal to the target demo, AS should concentrate on finding shows that tell good stories about characters we viewers can become involved with. If you find those shows, it won't matter what age group they supposedly are targeted to, the desired viewers will come.

A check around the animation fanboards will uncover tons of suggestions for shows worth looking into. Forget the "cool" factor, it's the story and characters that bring people in. (^_*)Amen. This should be put on a plaque and hung in every TV executive's suite.

Because it was on Toonami, I watched many of the Hamtaro episodes. While it doesn't fit Toonami, I thought it was a dang fine show for the younger demographic and Jingle was awesome. Although, I think my fiance is disturbed by the number of Ham-Hams I can name off the top of my head.

As for "AS Anime," while there may not really be any viable American action cartoons for the slot at the moment, I'd like to leave that possibility open. As for opening it up to more non-actionish shows, I think they may be already with Case Closed. For instance, the bumpers for Case Closed seem to be distinguished from the rest of the action bumpers and they aren't airing CC on their Saturday night action block.I hope you're right about this being a promising trend. (For the record, I love the Hams Hams too.)

[Wounded_Dragon]

Good point. The only one I can recall is "Invasion America". I think you have to go all the way back to "Jonny Quest" to find another quality animated action show in American prime time. (Great Britain had one great animated prime time show in the 1960s, "Thunderbirds", but it died when an American network didn't pick it up. Pity.)

Maybe the best thing for American animators to do would be a straight adaptation of printed material, like Tom Clancy novels, or comic strips like Dick Tracy or Steve Canyon, to cut their teeth on prime time action shows before tackling their own original stories like "Invasion America". Or maybe they should hire some Japanese animators to mentor them in how it's done.


I don't know, I can't help but think part of the problem is American culture with regards to animation for adults. There was nothing particularly childish about Invasion America, it aired in prime time, the story was gripping as far as science fiction goes...and it just died. I swear, if you took a popular show, any popular show, and animated it, Americans would automatically assume it's for kids. And if it wasn't, they'd assume the programming was evil and should be burned at the stake.

[Duke]

I don't know, I can't help but think part of the problem is American culture with regards to animation for adults. There was nothing particularly childish about Invasion America, it aired in prime time, the story was gripping as far as science fiction goes...and it just died. I swear, if you took a popular show, any popular show, and animated it, Americans would automatically assume it's for kids. And if it wasn't, they'd assume the programming was evil and should be burned at the stake.
Well, more American studios are going the Animatrix route and making video pre/sequels to their movies, such as Van Helsing and Hellboy.

[Tapout]

Good point. The only one I can recall is "Invasion America". I think you have to go all the way back to "Jonny Quest" to find another quality animated action show in American prime time.Didn't Batman: TAS originally run in primetime?

Personally, I've never had much problem with editing for broadcast standards and practices, as long as the show isn't cut to the point of insensibility. What I can't stand is wholesale arbitrary changes in an anime just for the sake of changes ("Cardcaptors" and "Escaflowne" being prime exhibits No. 1).Blue Gender was cut to the point of absurdity though. There was a lot that did need to be edited out, but there was just as much, if not more, that they should have left in. Other than the infamous "Uswi magically stuck to the wall" edit Kenshin wasn't too bad.

[Duke]

Didn't Batman: TAS originally run in primetime?
A few episodes premiered Sunday night at 7PM, but it was cut after a month or two. I do remember it premiered "Robin's Reckoning."

[kaine23]

I would think many anime fans now got into it becuase of Adult Swim.

[Gary L Thompson]

I don't know, I can't help but think part of the problem is American culture with regards to animation for adults. There was nothing particularly childish about Invasion America, it aired in prime time, the story was gripping as far as science fiction goes...and it just died. I swear, if you took a popular show, any popular show, and animated it, Americans would automatically assume it's for kids. And if it wasn't, they'd assume the programming was evil and should be burned at the stake.Anime was aimed at kids also, it's just that Japanese programming at kids has a sophistication of storytelling that if Americans saw it, they would assume the show would be aimed at a demographic a few years older. Also, the notion that animation is not just for kids has grown in Japan over the years, further than in this country.

I think that if Fox had slotted "Detective Conan" a few years ago between "The Simpsons" and "X-Files", instead of trying hopelessly to shoehorn it into the Fox Kids lineup, viewers would have caught on by now that it is great family show for teens and adults, just like shows along the lines of "Murder She Wrote", "Perry Mason", "Columbo", "Poirot", "Sherlock Holmes", "Inspector Morse", "Diagnosis Murder", "Nero Wolfe", etc. Mystery shows have always done well on American TV, but sci-fi like "Invasion America" is always chancy in prime time, animated or not (as any fan of "Star Trek", "Battlestar Galactica", "V", etc. would be first to tell you).


Didn't Batman: TAS originally run in primetime?
I remember Fox running the episode where Batman met Man-Bat in prime time, to promo its new afternoon series. But "Batman: TAS" never ran in prime time for any length of time. Pity, it might have turned into a hit if they had seriously slotted it as a prime time show.

[herbkir]

This is probably bad-mannered so I apologize in advance, but it's very on-topic.

An AS card last night during Conan picked up on a comment I'd made on the AS action boards where I said "It seems AS feels under pressure to deliver spectacular Saturday action ratings right from the get-go." (Context of post was that they weren't allowing Saturday action a fair chance to build up an audience.)

Their response:

"Not true. We simply stated a fact. The fact is that comedy is kicking action's ass."

"OK, maybe it's Saturday. Or maybe anime fans need to MAN-UP."

"1. Put down that controller. You can play video games at work."

"2. Andrea is not going to sleep with you. There's not enough alcohol in the world to make that happen."

"3. Put down that beer. You can get drunk at work."

"Get to watching, guys. You're getting beat by a wad of meat, for goodness sake."

Comments? (^_*)

EDIT: I've always been pretty sure AS read their own messageboards, but it was nice to see concrete proof that they do, and that the comments they respond to are from real people.

[Duke]

I was wondering when you were gonna reply ever since I saw your name up there on TV.

[Wounded_Dragon]

I take it that people at WS a) play video games at work b) can't get Andrea and c) get drunk at work. :evil:


More and more of their jokes, you can't get unless you've been watching their cards since they debuted.:sweat:

[Karl Olson]

I take it that people at WS a) play video games at work b) can't get Andrea and c) get drunk at work. :evil:


More and more of their jokes, you can't get unless you've been watching their cards since they debuted.:sweat:

Well, I know a) and c) are definetely true. The Toonami/ASA guys @ WS definetely play video games at work, while the ASC guys (atleast the Sealab guys for sure) have beer in the office, ready to drink.

As far as people not ponying up, it's hard to when the promotion bites. Run a promo during ASC for ASA, and in general stop marketing them like they are separate beings, and maybe the ratings will stop sucking. Else if, don't whine when noone knows when to tune in.

Oh, and congrats on your mention herbkir.

[Sketch]

I didn't even pay attention to who that came from but I did see it durring Conan. I loved their responce.

Who's Andrea?

[Wounded_Dragon]

Well, I know a) and c) are definetely true. The Toonami/ASA guys @ WS definetely play video games at work, while the ASC guys (atleast the Sealab guys for sure) have beer in the office, ready to drink.

As far as people not ponying up, it's hard to when the promotion bites. Run a promo during ASC for ASA, and in general stop marketing them like they are separate beings, and maybe the ratings will stop sucking. Else if, don't whine when noone knows when to tune in.

Oh, and congrats on your mention herbkir.
But John Q. Public doesn't know that they do.

I've seen the occassional promo for Case Closed during the comedy weeknight portion and possibly IY when it was on, but they barely promote the last hour until the anime portion starts.

If they're barely going to promote the section of the the block that's going to promote ASA then what do they expect?

On the flip side, I'm pretty sure I remember ASC promos during ASA...

[Jaguar]

Of course there are ASC promos during ASA. Repetitive ones. Ones that got old a long time ago (that means YOU, "[as] Includes" promo) Just makes logical SENSE, DON'T IT?! *twitches*

[Master Moron]

I think that if Fox had slotted "Detective Conan" a few years ago between "The Simpsons" and "X-Files", instead of trying hopelessly to shoehorn it into the Fox Kids lineup, viewers would have caught on by now that it is great family show for teens and adults, just like shows along the lines of "Murder She Wrote", "Perry Mason", "Columbo", "Poirot", "Sherlock Holmes", "Inspector Morse", "Diagnosis Murder", "Nero Wolfe", etc. Mystery shows have always done well on American TV, but sci-fi like "Invasion America" is always chancy in prime time, animated or not (as any fan of "Star Trek", "Battlestar Galactica", "V", etc. would be first to tell you).


You know, it's interesting, Fox doesn't seem to be afraid of animation in prime time. They once premiered three animated shows in the same year. However, whenever they have a potential hit anime series on their hands they target it towards kids. Both Detective Conan and Escaflowne should never have been considered for a kids block(at least not a Fox kids block where it would require extensive editing). So, one might wonder why Fox has no problem airing American animated series in prime time, but will not air anime in prime time. I thought it may be the "look" of anime. When people see the big eyed spiky hair look of anime they probably immediately think Pokemon. But, another possibility may be simply that Fox doesn't own any of anime series, so they would not want to give a series that they don't own a good prime time slot.

[Matthew Williams]

keeping it short for various reasons...

but one of the reasons anime kept being targeted towards kids was that it was acquired by a different company from "regular" fox. fox kids was run basically independently of the rest of the fox network by the time they started dabbling a lot in anime.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

what does "MAN-UP" mean anyway :confused: I just don't get that remark cause "showup" makes more sense http://members.aol.com/kimminakochan/chicken.gif

[Wounded_Dragon]

You know, it's interesting, Fox doesn't seem to be afraid of animation in prime time. They once premiered three animated shows in the same year. However, whenever they have a potential hit anime series on their hands they target it towards kids.
Weren't they sitcoms?

[livingfruitvirus]

So, one might wonder why Fox has no problem airing American animated series in prime time, but will not air anime in prime time.
A.) The big networks prefer to make their own shows instead of import to maintain a sense of familiarity with the American public. (see: NBC)

B.) Age groups like 34-49 and 52+ would see it, and it would be absolutely slaughtered in the ratings.

[guinaevere]

While it doesn't fit Toonami, I thought it was a dang fine show for the younger demographic and Jingle was awesome.I agree, I'm rather at a loss to understand why they would have put it on Toonami at all. It's too happy/kid friendly for that block.

That said, it also is capable of enchanting an older market as well. I've turned a number of my adult friends onto the show. They think it's the greatest thing they've seen on tv in ages. It's just plain fun.


Although, I think my fiance is disturbed by the number of Ham-Hams I can name off the top of my head.I find that hard to believe. Not that you have a fiance, but that she'd be worried by the fact that you like Hamtaro. :p

I honestly don't see much more appeal to calling the block Adult Swim Anime, as apposed to Adult Swim Action, other then it's more specific. From my stand point, renaming the block 'Anime' would only limit their programming in the future, effectively boxing themselves into an Anime programming restriction.A few people seemed to have misunderstood me, which makes sense, as I wasn't very lucid in my ideas. I was more of the mind, that the ASAnime block would be able to aire both action and non-action under that name. I would hope for action to remain a staple of the block, (as ditching that would turn off a good number of percentage of their fanbase) but any dramatic or comedic anime would fit as well.

But I feel that they would be able to make a big push in advertising for the ASAnime block in many different media, hopefully increasing their numbers dramatically. They would still keep the seperated ASComedy block, but keep it what it basically is, which is non-anime chucklehead cartoons.

Maybe the best thing for American animators to do would be a straight adaptation of printed material, like Tom Clancy novels, or comic strips like Dick Tracy or Steve Canyon, to cut their teeth on prime time action showsWhat an awesome idea. I'd LOVE to see John Clark/Rainbow Six in some media other than written word. But even more, I'd love to see Dick Tracy in a well done animated series. wow. Great idea.

Personally, I'd love to see Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged done as an anime series, with the style/feel of Last Exile. Not likely, I know, but I can dream, can't I?

(For the record, I love the Hams Hams too.)As you don't mention a fiance, or someone else who might be offended by this gesture, here... have a cookie. :D

[Anarky]

except for bebop and big o, all the other anime' disappointed me

WHR was a snooze fest, never got into Inuyasha or Ruroni Kenshin...nor did I like the Gundams, Submarine No.6, Blue Gender, YuYu Hakusho, Tenchi, Outlaw Star, Trigun, or Lupin. I watched a little Wolf's Rain, another show that can't hold my interest. I'm not even going to bother w/ Case Closed. And then there's FLCL, though fluidly animated, the pedophilia makes me not want to watch it. I think every episode had a panty shot of Mamimi. But that's just a cultural thing. The age of consent in Japan is MUCH lower than in the States.

i'm not saying i hate anime. i just find of majority of it uninteresting to me

[Crimefighter]

If you didn't like the bulk of all the animes that have aired, then you were never a fan of anime at all.

Seen on one of the cards, AS claims "comedy is kicking action's arse". Gee, thats a BAD omen. Course if comedy aired AFTER the action part, would comedy STILL be whipping action?

[True Noir]

If you didn't like the bulk of all the animes that have aired, then you were never a fan of anime at all.

Seen on one of the cards, AS claims "comedy is kicking action's arse". Gee, thats a BAD omen. Course if comedy aired AFTER the action part, would comedy STILL be whipping action?
That's a nice way to put it.:D

[lostrune]

And then there's FLCL, though fluidly animated, the pedophilia makes me not want to watch it. I think every episode had a panty shot of Mamimi. But that's just a cultural thing. The age of consent in Japan is MUCH lower than in the States.

Mamimi is a bit old for that. She's already 17. ;)
And most prefectures of Japan have already raised the age of consent to about 16 y.o.


Seen on one of the cards, AS claims "comedy is kicking action's arse". Gee, thats a BAD omen. Course if comedy aired AFTER the action part, would comedy STILL be whipping action?

Didn't they already do that one instance for Big O II? :p

[Gary L Thompson]

You know, it's interesting, Fox doesn't seem to be afraid of animation in prime time. They once premiered three animated shows in the same year. However, whenever they have a potential hit anime series on their hands they target it towards kids. Both Detective Conan and Escaflowne should never have been considered for a kids block(at least not a Fox kids block where it would require extensive editing). So, one might wonder why Fox has no problem airing American animated series in prime time, but will not air anime in prime time. I thought it may be the "look" of anime. When people see the big eyed spiky hair look of anime they probably immediately think Pokemon. But, another possibility may be simply that Fox doesn't own any of anime series, so they would not want to give a series that they don't own a good prime time slot.Frankly, "Escaflowne" I could see somewhat, because its episode count was more suited for Saturday morning (even though its material wasn't), and Fox had no hope of future seasons unless it ordered new animation. However, "Detective Conan" assured them of several seasons already in the can, even with no reruns, which makes their failure to consider the show for prime time even more unwise in retrospect.

B.) Age groups like 34-49 and 52+ would see it, and it would be absolutely slaughtered in the ratings.An anime wouldn't require much ratings to be successful, because animation has a much lower bottom line than live-action dramatic or sitcom programming (why else do you think Saturday morning has been overrun with animation all these years?), and anime even more so because the stories, animation, and sound track is already provided, all that is necessary to spend money on would be scripts and voice work. In the case of "Detective Conan", I think in three to five seasons time, the older demographics would have finally caught on that the show's mysteries are every bit as entertaining as on the American mystery shows, while younger audiences likely would have made it a cult hit from the start.

I agree, I'm rather at a loss to understand why they would have put it on Toonami at all. It's too happy/kid friendly for that block.

That said, it also is capable of enchanting an older market as well. I've turned a number of my adult friends onto the show. They think it's the greatest thing they've seen on tv in ages. It's just plain fun..CN obviously was trying to push its new acquisition for all its worth. I call that a laudable aim, but I think they would have had far more luck towards that end by surrounding "Hamtaro" with shows similar to it, rather than inserting it into a block where it was very out of context (even if it might have picked up some older fans for the show).

What an awesome idea. I'd LOVE to see John Clark/Rainbow Six in some media other than written word. But even more, I'd love to see Dick Tracy in a well done animated series. wow. Great idea.Actually, I think the UPA "Dick Tracy" captured the atmosphere of the comic strip very well--in the opening theme. Unfortunately, the cartoon shorts that followed were slapstick comedy in a concession to the kiddies market. I honestly don't blame them for that; but if they had to make Dick Tracy comic, instead of doing inferior ripoffs of Speedy Gonzales, Charlie Chan, and the Keystone Cops; why didn't they use Chester Gold's own funny characters (the Plentys and Vitamin Flintheart are a couple potential stars of those shorts that come immediately to mind). As it was, the only really good UPA cartoon of Dick Tracy came about in a crossover with Mr. Magoo, if you can believe that.

But Chester Gould's and Max Allan Collins' original stories brought to life with appropriate voice artists and musical score? LIke you said, wow. (Just out of curiousity, who's the cheerful gal in the broad-brimmed hat? I don't recall any character like her in any anime I've seen.)

[Duke]

An anime wouldn't require much ratings to be successful, because animation has a much lower bottom line than live-action dramatic or sitcom programming (why else do you think Saturday morning has been overrun with animation all these years?), and anime even more so because the stories, animation, and sound track is already provided, all that is necessary to spend money on would be scripts and voice work. In the case of "Detective Conan", I think in three to five seasons time, the older demographics would have finally caught on that the show's mysteries are every bit as entertaining as on the American mystery shows, while younger audiences likely would have made it a cult hit from the start.
The problem is that Fox would probably give it 4 weeks at most to get good ratings before it's canned. Even the budget "reality shows" need to prove themselves.

I agree, I'm rather at a loss to understand why they would have put it on Toonami at all. It's too happy/kid friendly for that block.
I believe it was Kids' WB! (Who didn't want Toonami taking away its weekday ratings) who forced it on Toonami. I know it was forced on.

[Zero Angel]

wow...what a horribly late position to fall into as this topic goes back quite a long way.

as most of what people have been saying has already been commented on and what-not, i shall not qoute just to make my posting shorter.

overall it seems that the idealism of the AS block is being called in once more. i remember when AS first debuted and it was neither comedy nor action, simply a block of animation that was geared toward an older audience. im trying to recall everything that was a part of the block but i believe that the only anime that was on the section was Cowboy Bebop. this of coarse was shown at the end of the block, following Home Movies, Brak, Space Ghost, so on.

Cowboy Bebop was still quite successful and opened alot of people up to the show and made some pretty big anime fans out of some of the casual viewers, even at its later showing.

i think at this point they need to go back and re-evaluate the block completely and see if the american made shows fit.

Futurama, Home Movies, and Family Guy (while adult themed in lots of ways) would serve CN and WS alot better in terms of marketing and what not if they fit it with a prime time slot (7-9). i dont watch alot of CN anymore, so i dont know if there would be alot of scheduling problems with doing that.

the more out there shows (Sea Lab, Space Ghost) would be great for the late, late block as they have shown with constantly getting the excellent ratings. anime might have been suffering on the block simply because of the fact that they keep switching up shows so fast that the casual viewer might turn in one week to a show, then the next they might tune into something completly different, destroying any sense of familiarity. meanwhile, comedy keeps with its mainstays.

my opinion, AS should just go back to being Adult Swim. slice off a few of the shows, put them into more marketable blocks and then simplify the equation for the block, make it a 2-3 hour block that would have all of the things that made AS great when it first started.

just one more thing...why is it that CN and WS have decided that the only time that they can have the shows that are decidely more adult on only during this block?

perhaps its time for CN to move on with itself and allow other shows that they have aquired go to different time slots (hey Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, and Outlaw Star would make a fun little block in their own right at some point after AS). well enough from my brain.

[Duke]

Futurama, Home Movies, and Family Guy (while adult themed in lots of ways) would serve CN and WS alot better in terms of marketing and what not if they fit it with a prime time slot (7-9). i dont watch alot of CN anymore, so i dont know if there would be alot of scheduling problems with doing that.
The problem is that, sans AS, CN is considered a kid's channel by the masses, so CN would be up to their armpits in angry parents if they place a former AS show on Primetime (Especially one so popular as Futurama or Family Guy. The only reason YuYu Hakusho probably slipped under the radar is because it wasn't uber-popular when it moved).

[Zero Angel]

The problem is that, sans AS, CN is considered a kid's channel by the masses, so CN would be up to their armpits in angry parents if they place a former AS show on Primetime (Especially one so popular as Futurama or Family Guy. The only reason YuYu Hakusho probably slipped under the radar is because it wasn't uber-popular when it moved).

see i think that that is just the paranoia that has kept CN from expanding itself out. i dont think that people will get angry i think that, if properly marketed and done right, then they may be able to draw from an audience pool that they havent been able to tap into, thus changing up the people that would make the opinions matter.

[herbkir]

Don't forget that the best AS ratings don't hold a candle to the preteen ratings Cartoon Network pulls every day with its afternoon and primetime programming. Miguzi's been pulling in around 900,000 preteen viewers every afternoon. AS comedy Sundays manage around a half million and action Saturdays run around 300,000. Overall AS ratings run around 400,000 viewers on average.

Family Guy is about the only show in the AS stable that could pull in an older audience comparable to what the preteen-targeted shows draw, but that would only be on occasion when they run something special. So moving the best-rated AS adult-level shows to prime time or earlier would represent a loss of viewership (and ad income) for Turner Broadcasting. (And less clout for AS in the internal corporate turf wars.) (^_*)

[Master Moron]

except for bebop and big o, all the other anime' disappointed me

WHR was a snooze fest, never got into Inuyasha or Ruroni Kenshin...nor did I like the Gundams, Submarine No.6, Blue Gender, YuYu Hakusho, Tenchi, Outlaw Star, Trigun, or Lupin. I watched a little Wolf's Rain, another show that can't hold my interest. I'm not even going to bother w/ Case Closed. And then there's FLCL, though fluidly animated, the pedophilia makes me not want to watch it. I think every episode had a panty shot of Mamimi. But that's just a cultural thing. The age of consent in Japan is MUCH lower than in the States.

i'm not saying i hate anime. i just find of majority of it uninteresting to me

Wow, those are a lot of series you didn't like. But, you have to try Case Closed. It's way more interesting than Law and Order and CSI. I mean, on those types of shows you have to wait till the evidence is presented to you, however, with Case Closed, the evidence is all there, you just have to piece it together. I can't recall the last time a good detective show like this was on the air, animated or otherwise.

[Zero Angel]

Don't forget that the best AS ratings don't hold a candle to the preteen ratings Cartoon Network pulls every day with its afternoon and primetime programming. Miguzi's been pulling in around 900,000 preteen viewers every afternoon. AS comedy Sundays manage around a half million and action Saturdays run around 300,000. Overall AS ratings run around 400,000 viewers on average.

Family Guy is about the only show in the AS stable that could pull in an older audience comparable to what the preteen-targeted shows draw, but that would only be on occasion when they run something special. So moving the best-rated AS adult-level shows to prime time or earlier would represent a loss of viewership (and ad income) for Turner Broadcasting. (And less clout for AS in the internal corporate turf wars.) (^_*)

see that is what i am talking about though...AS, while it would lose some of its audience would then have the ability to concentrate on other aspects of the block. making it more simple again. CN would then be able to move out ahead and try to compete with the prime time slot, and as we have seen, Family Guy and Futurama do draw crowds.

i say they should take the risk and leave it to shows like Space Ghost, Sea Lab, Brak, and ATHF to bring in the non-anime loving group, and let InyuYasha (still dont see why its on the block) and a host of any other new anime (like Samurai Champlu) to bring in the anime fans.