Computer Science Degree - Worth it?

[RZetlin]

I'm thinking about getting a degree in computer science.

I already have a background in programming and computers, though the math in computer science might pose a challenge for me.

For those who are taking Computer Science, how are the courses? Is the math difficult to learn? Do you think your degree will help you with your career? Are you enjoying the course?

My second option is a degree in business or information technology which leans towards more business objectives.

[Romanesque]

In my experience as someone who would be a Computer Science graduate in a month, if I hadn't transferred during my junior year...

Academically, there is a very strong trend to make Computer Science into a "hard science", despite the field's relative immaturity. This is good if you want to get into theoretics, experimentation, research, etc. The time spent on the level of math and logic (I'll be glad to list examples) will probably far outweigh the time you actually spend learning about programming. If that's not something that thrills you, stay far away.

If you're more concerned about the art of programming itself, you should probably be looking into Computer Engineering instead. Of course, I'd expect the number of available programming jobs in the West to continue to bleed into other countries, so it may or may not be the path for you.

The courses can be rough. The failure rates are often frightening. I've had classes where only a tenth of the studends recieved a passing grade. Only a third of the students passing a given class is not unusual. It's not that no one tries, either... it's just quite intensive.

--Romey

[MidNight Kid]

I heard that Computer Science helps you get into the gaming industry,but what the heck do i know,im still in high school :D

[Romanesque]

I heard that Computer Science helps you get into the gaming industry,but what the heck do i know,im still in high school :D

Alas, it's becoming much harder to break into the gaming industry for anyone, regardless of talent. Though, you do have a point... One of the latest "in demand" skills in the gaming industry is knowledge of AI. That's definitely CS territory.

--Romey

[RogueMartian]

I don't know much about CS myself, being a journalism major. But my understanding is that what Billie Bumbler said is pretty accurate.

I have quite a few friends who are CS majors and they have a diet consisting if little more than coffee and the occasional ramen. They spend a LOT of time programming. And even the ones who I know to be computer prodigies still fail classes pretty regularly. Often they have to spend summers or an extra year in college to make up for that. I don't know how much math or theory there is, but I do know that at three colleges the CS majors have to take a class on AI, and I heard it was a bear of a course. One of my friends had to take it twice.

The downside of CS people is that they talk about little else. I swear, i want to kill them all at the merest mention of linux. The upside is that when you graduate you will have a skill and jobs will be more plentiful than other jobs (though if the economy keeps going the way it has, that's still not a lot).

If you go into computer engineering you need to take a language course in Hindi definitely, but a smattering of chinese and oddly enough french couldn't hurt. Otherwise there will be little to no communication between you and your peers. At least not at my school. And yes, jobs in this area seem to be going those respective countries as well.

That's an external perception obviously, I wish you luck in choosing a major. Business is a good major too, but everyone i know who is a business major is a major partier at school. No offense to Business majors out there, it's just that...the ones i know don't seem to be too serious about education.

[FredNash]

Sounds to me like you should go with information systems. If you already have "background in programming and computers" then the math in either degree shouldn't pose a threat, but if you're not sure, information technology or I.S. is probly more up your alley.

As to the benefits, I'd say they're all about the same, depending on what college you go to. Unless it's a well respected university, there is really no difference at all. I got a 4 year degree and a 2 year degree, and what I learned helped me some, and the fact that I have a degree helped me some, but it was still really hard finding a job of ANY kind, let alone a programming job.

Of course, they say the recession that didn't exist is over now, but they also say that it's a 'jobless recovery', so we'll see what that means for normal people looking for jobs...

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

I got my CS degree in 1992, so things have probably changed since then. However, what I can say is that the math involved in getting a CS degree wasn't substantial. Most CS theory relies on theoretical math which you should be able to grasp if you understand algebra. Beyond that, math as it's understood in high school/early college is optional, but the numerical methods class I took (i.e., "how to do math when a computer can't represent 1/3 accurately") is one of the few undergrad classes which I actually use in my Real Life Job.

It's worth mentioning that I went to a math and science high school and was taking multi-variable calculus in my senior year, so my idea of "relatively insubstantial math" is probably a bit skewed.

Also for what it's worth, one guy who graduated my year was a religious studies major who took a bunch of programming classes, and ended up being one of 3 graduates (out of 30 or so) who went to work for Microsoft after graduation. You will learn things in the classes which are not obvious to pick up on your own, but I think experience counts for more than a degree.

-- Ed/Ace

[Romanesque]

I got my CS degree in 1992, so things have probably changed since then. However, what I can say is that the math involved in getting a CS degree wasn't substantial . . . It's worth mentioning that I went to a math and science high school and was taking multi-variable calculus in my senior year, so my idea of "relatively insubstantial math" is probably a bit skewed.

Hmm... I dunno, I was doing multi-variable calc in my senior year as well, but I still found the CS math requirements to be fairly extensive. Though, as you've said, things may have changed.

So far, the "pure math" courses I've had to take for my CS major include Calc I, II, III, IV, Ordinary Differential Equations, Linear Algebra I & II, Discrete Math, Algorithms, . . . others I'm surely forgetting . . . and I've still yet to take a required Probability course which doubles as a graduate level class, here. The assorted math in my directly CS related classes usually borders on the lower Calculus end, but there hasn't been any shortage of bizzare math & logic problems on levels totally alien to me...

...but the numerical methods class I took (i.e., "how to do math when a computer can't represent 1/3 accurately") is one of the few undergrad classes which I actually use in my Real Life Job.

Amazingly, I haven't encountered any requirements for Numerical Methods yet. Which is kinda sad, because I'd rather like to learn about it, and I haven't had any opportunity to take such a class. =x

--Romey

[FredNash]

So far, the "pure math" courses I've had to take for my CS major include Calc I, II, III, IV, Ordinary Differential Equations, Linear Algebra I & II, Discrete Math, Algorithms, . . .
Umm, ok if you have to take Calc I-IV, Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, that's a math degree, not a Computer Science degree... you should be able to get a BA in Mathematics with a schedule like that. The most a typical Computer Scinece / Programming degree will require is Calc I, and usually you can get away with just College Algebra... a degree that heavy in math sounds more like a double major like Computational Mathematics to me. Of course, titles may vary from place to place and that might be what you're talking about...

[True Noir]

How much does a person with a computer science career get paid each year?

[Romanesque]

Umm, ok if you have to take Calc I-IV, Differential Equations and Linear Algebra, that's a math degree, not a Computer Science degree... you should be able to get a BA in Mathematics with a schedule like that.

Nah, the Math majors I've known would laugh at my lack of mathematics courses. :p Besides, I haven't enjoyed a math course since Calc III... in which a mere eight out of eighty students passed (one A, seven C's). Tough professor. I wouldn't have taken any further math courses after that if I'd had a choice. :sweat:

The most a typical Computer Scinece / Programming degree will require is Calc I, and usually you can get away with just College Algebra... a degree that heavy in math sounds more like a double major like Computational Mathematics to me. Of course, titles may vary from place to place and that might be what you're talking about...

Nope, definitely not into Computational Mathematics.

I know my requirements have been more rigorous than most, but a CS degree without so much as Calc I & II would be well nigh worthless... I can't see how one could possibly wade through Probability without a reasonable Calc background, and without some deeper understanding of Probability, it would be rather difficult to fully grasp Empirical Analysis... which, in turn, is necessary if one plans to do any research or publication in CS.

Then there's Linear Algebra, which is vital if you're interested in areas such as graphics programming (or anything else with a lot of vectors... which are everywhere in CS)

How much does a person with a computer science career get paid each year?

Anywhere from a measly $20,000 to $300,000 or more. Average for folks fresh out of college is usually estimated at around $50,000 to $60,000. Keep in mind that these people are often working long hours.

Of course, that's presuming you can find work. From the latest research papers I've read, the average job search for new graduates is upwards of six months, long after all those loan payments are due...

--Romey

[True Noir]

Nah, the Math majors I've known would laugh at my lack of mathematics courses. :p Besides, I haven't enjoyed a math course since Calc III... in which a mere eight out of eighty students passed (one A, seven C's). Tough professor. I wouldn't have taken any further math courses after that if I'd had a choice. :sweat:



Nope, definitely not into Computational Mathematics.

I know my requirements have been more rigorous than most, but a CS degree without so much as Calc I & II would be well nigh worthless... I can't see how one could possibly wade through Probability without a reasonable Calc background, and without some deeper understanding of Probability, it would be rather difficult to fully grasp Empirical Analysis... which, in turn, is necessary if one plans to do any research or publication in CS.

Then there's Linear Algebra, which is vital if you're interested in areas such as graphics programming (or anything else with a lot of vectors... which are everywhere in CS)



Anywhere from a measly $20,000 to $300,000 or more. Average for folks fresh out of college is usually estimated at around $50,000 to $60,000. Keep in mind that these people are often working long hours.

Of course, that's presuming you can find work. From the latest research papers I've read, the average job search for new graduates is upwards of six months, long after all those loan payments are due...

--Romey
Wow! As little as $20,000. You gotta suck really bad at the job if you get paid that little.

[Romanesque]

Wow! As little as $20,000. You gotta suck really bad at the job if you get paid that little.

See, that's what we call "low end" work. :p You must realize, though, that sometimes, you've gotta take what employment there is, regardless of your skills. Some people like to have food and a roof over their heads...

--Romey

[True Noir]

See, that's what we call "low end" work. :p You must realize, though, that sometimes, you've gotta take what employment there is, regardless of your skills. Some people like to have food and a roof over their heads...

--Romey
Yeh, I bet there are thousands of ppl desperate enough to take a job that pays as little as that. (Blames Bush)

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Hmm... I dunno, I was doing multi-variable calc in my senior year as well, but I still found the CS math requirements to be fairly extensive. Though, as you've said, things may have changed.

Heh. Perhaps I ought to clarify. The math REQUIREMENTS for my degree were fairly high, with multi-variable calc being the minimum. However, my college didn't enforce that very rigorously -- it was really more of a "you ought to be This Tall to ride this ride" kind of thing. Algorithms also got its own course in the CS department separate from the math dept.

All of which goes to show that one CS degree does not necessarily equal another one, which is another way to explain the salary differences between CS majors. The industry you're in makes a big difference, too -- programmers for Wall Street firms can get paid an order of magnitude more than programmers for, say, a tech firm or a pharmeceutical (to pick two firms locally which hire programmers).

Amazingly, I haven't encountered any requirements for Numerical Methods yet. Which is kinda sad, because I'd rather like to learn about it, and I haven't had any opportunity to take such a class. =x

If you get the opportunity, it is worth it. I had a particularly good prof for it -- possibly one of the best ones I had in my major. Actually, now that I think about it, there was a specific CS class I had to take called Linear Algebra and Computational Mathematics, which was "college math for CS majors," so we didn't have to do all those individual courses you took. Numerical methods was a senior CS major/grad school elective.

Most programs I've seen don't make numerical methods a requirement, which is a real shame 'cuz it's one of the coolest classes you'll get to take in CS, IMO.

For what it's worth, serious computer graphics courses get pretty heavy on the math, too.

-- Ed/Ace