Anonymous Source reveals SCEA approval process

[Vidfreak]

This post (http://www.workingdesigns.com/scripts/wwwthreads/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=general&Number=118958&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&vc=1#Post118958) at the WD Discussion Board points to comments, which have since been taken down at their original location (http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29268), about SCEA's QA policies.

I won't reveal my friend's name or company, but suffice to say it's a smaller organization. What he told me about Sony's current "concept approval" process blew my mind. Among other things:

* SCEA now rejects any 2D game out of hand.

* Gameplay does not, in any way, enter into the process, but graphics are all-important. My friend was quite literally told this: a gorgeous game that plays like dog**bleep** will be approved, and a fantastic game that looks like dog**bleep** will not be approved.

* My friend's company had almost completely localized the PS2 sequel to a successful PS1 game, thinking its approval was a no-brainer, but SCEA rejected it.

* SCEA is about to publish a new set of concept-approval guidelines to make its idiotic priorities clearer to third-party publishers, because companies are desperately trying to figure out what Sony is thinking.

As if it wasn't already obvious: SCEA doesn't give two **bleep**s about hardcore gamers. And unfortunately, the sales charts back up its position. My friend bemoaned the fact that no one, himself included, can figure out how to sell non-sequel, non-tie-in, non-GTA clones on the PS2. The utter failure of Beyond Good and Evil and the underperformance of The Sands of Time have the entire industry freaked out.

I am, as of today, officially a Sony-hater.

My bolded/underlined emphasis.

Your thoughts on this, as gamers who appreciate more about games than just the extent to which they let you cap prostitutes and steal cars?

I'm sure there are exceptions to the above bullets. Disgaea is pretty 2-D. It may depend on the company, as one WD member puts it: "It blows really, but as long as Sony has their lap dog SquareEnix, it's the truth. I told someone that Square could take a dump and box it up and send it to Sony and it would be approved in record time."

Do all companies undergo this arrogance as they climb to the top of the heap? Sure, Nintendo and Microsoft will grasp at any strings that dangle before them, since they're trying to build market- and mind-share, but if they become industry tyrants, will they refuse anything they can? Back when Nintendo (which, granted, has always been pretty arrogant to begin with) ruled the roost, their policies kept a lot of stuff from coming here. Heck, in the PS1 days, Sony was known for their very liberal policies for niche software and such.

Also.......
With the recent rumblings of prodcut approval cancelations, I'd like to amass a list of all PS2 games that didn't make it due to SCEA.

CONFIRMED BLOCKS
-Bomberman Kart (Konami)
-Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon (Dreamcatcher)
-Charlie's Angels (UbiSoft)
-Circus Maximus (Encore)
-Ghost Vibration (Atari)
-Goemon (Working Designs)
-Gregory Horror Show (Capcom)
-Growlanser II: The Sense of Justice (Working Designs)*
-Growlanser III: The Dual Darkness (Working Designs)*
-Kengo II (UbiSoft)
-Metal Slug 3 (SNK NeoGeo)
-Outlaw Golf (Simon & Schuster)
-Outlaw Volleyball (Simon & Schuster)
-Shadow Tower Abyss (Agetec)
-Smashing Drive (Namco)
-SNK Vs Capcom: SVC Chaos (SNK NeoGeo)
-Space Channel 5 (Agetec)**
-Space Channel 5 Part 2 (Agetec)**
-Spirits & Spells (Dreamcatcher)
-Syberia (XS Games)
-Syberia II (XS Games)
-Ys I & II Eternal Story (NEC Interchannel)

RUMORED BLOCKS
-Bomberman Jetters (Majesco)
-Bonk's Adventure (tba)
-DoDonPachi Dai-Oujou (Agetec)
-Hyper Street Fighter II Turbo: Anniversary Edition (Capcom)
-Puyo Pop Fever (Sega)
-Psyvariar (tba)
-Samurai Showdown V (SNK NeoGeo)
-Tales of Destiny III (Namco)

*repackaged into Growlanser Generations
** repackaged into Space Channel 5 Special Edition

[Nin-Nin69]

Space Channel 5 and Charlie's Angels came out for the PS2.

Yet these methods by the SCEA don't seem fair. I was suprised that R-Type Final and KOF 00/01 just got through. Then again this supports the facts that I've read how certain games were never imported to the states for those silly reasons. Tobal 2 never made it's way here because the first one was crap. Yet it was rated one of the greatest fighting games of all time. Same with Rival Schools 2. We never got that until the remade Dreamcast version came out. I'm still waiting for that new JoJo's Bizare Adventure. They released the anime here already. Now is the time to unleash the new one on the masses.

And yes, Square Enix isn't as holy as everyone tends to think. How many people bothered to play Unlimited Saga? Even the Bouncer lacked because it was too short and the controls needed more tuning. FFXI I feel is going to be a flop according to the current PC sales and reviews. Rockstar isn't that good either. If they never bought out Take Two when they were still making computer games and bought shares from 3D Realms , they'd be nothing.

What does the future hold for Gradius V and probally Neo Contra? Will I ever see SNK Vs. Capom Chaos and Samurai Spirits V? Now I'm fit to be tied. :mad:

[Bakasama]

I read this elsewhere and at a gaming board. Not too many players are happy about this. I also read this from the History of SNK article at gamespot. It just comfirms to many gamers that many games won't be on PSX2 because they aren't "pretty" enough.

[Vidfreak]

Its pretty crappy what they are doing. i just wish that the publishers would move them to either the GCN and Xbox. If Sony makes publishers mad this might hurt Sony for the next console wars. They are becoming as arrogent as Nintendo was back in 94/95. This 2-D rule is crappy id definately play Ys over any crap game Crave , Acclaim , Rockstar , Edios and THQ manage to produce.

[SSJPabs]

I dunno this doesn't upset me too much mostly because La Pucelle isn't listed on there. But this is what I always say to people: If a game plays great, what can'y they make it pretty AND great? What's so prestigious about playing games that look like crap?

It generally strikes me as elitist talk, especially because as was reference in the original post, those games don't tend to sell. Also, Ed McGothlin of Gameforms wrote an article about the Legend of the Mystical Ninja that touched on this issue last year. Hmm, from my understanding there are only so many games that can come out at a time for the PS2, because of the shelf space, etc and so Sony chooses the ones they think will sell best.

I'm not going to hate on Sony even if someone calls me a fanboy. I have a 'Cube too :p But I've played way too many fabuluous games that look pretty as well on the PS2 for me to turn my back on them.

Also Guilty Gear made it out... so 2-D games CAN emerge.

[Mek]

Huh....

Well if all that is true, then well... chest.

*hugs her Gamecube and Xbox*

I don't want this to turn into a Square-Enix*bashfest, but I do agree that people think of them as WAY too 'holier-than-thou'. Unlimited Saga was a dissapointment (how the hell did THAT pass SCEA's 'no 2-d requirement? Oh wait, it's Square-Enix...), and The Bouncer was just... ehhh, not really that stellar.

*sigh*

To think that I once was a Sony fangirl... :sad:

As for 'Nintendo being arrogant', yes even as a Nintendo fan, I can agree with that. But those days have pretty much gone away after that blowhard Yamauchi-wossname left the company. XO

[Speedy Boris]

To recreate a Critic line: "They curb Space Channel 5 but they allow GTA clones." (turns on Vice City and runs over a pedestrian) "Hahahahaha! Now THIS I understand!"

[NachoHat]

Will I ever see SNK Vs. Capom Chaos and Samurai Spirits V?
Yes...on the Xbox. Well, SvC at least. Seeing how SNK is getting along with Sony in terms of their approval processes, we'll probably be seeing SS5 on the Xbox as well.


Anyways, if this is true, then that's really lame of Sony. That's a big "if" though. While it's certainly possibly (SNK's troubles with Sony certainly points toward that) it's also equally possible that this could be the product of some Nintendo/Microsoft fanboy's hatred of Sony. The original "Sony tried to kill 2D" rumor was completely made up by an editor of Gamefan, who happened to be a huge Nintendo-fanboy.

But, hey, if it is true, I don't mind in some cases. It's causing us to get ports of SvC:Chaos and Metal Slug 3 with Xbox Live support, something that would probably never have happened otherwise.

[Jundaunted]

I never quite understood SCEA's asinine rejection method. Exactly how come a game that was deemed alright for Japan (like Soul Hackers, Goemon or any Capcom Generation title besides the Street Fighter one) is rejected in the states. I heard they almost canned Mega Man 8 once, which resulted in Capcom threatening Sony to pull off RE2 as a PS title and develop it as a Saturn-exclusive.

[RedBoot]

I heard they almost canned Mega Man 8 once, which resulted in Capcom threatening Sony to pull off RE2 as a PS title and develop it as a Saturn-exclusive.
Yeah, I heard that too. I don't know if it's true, but just think what would have happened if Capcom had done that. RE2, along with FF7 and Metal Gear Solid, was one of the main reasons the PS1 became popular. Just think if it had been a Saturn exclusive...

Anyway, at least now I know what happened to Kengo 2.

I think 2D games can pretty much only make it over as bundles now. If SNK had just tried to sell KOF2001 alone, we wouldn't have gotten it.

[Botman]

As you would guess by my avatar, I was very dissapointed when Goemon was cancelled.

As a recent SNK fan who has no intention on purchasing an X-Box, SVC: Chaos may be the last straw I can take with Sony. Now I can only hope that KOF 03 manages to get by Sony so that I can continue following the plot.

(Now I feel ashamed that I bought the GTA PS2 Double Pack, instead of KOF 2000/01...:( )

[Jundaunted]

Yeah, I heard that too. I don't know if it's true, but just think what would have happened if Capcom had done that. RE2, along with FF7 and Metal Gear Solid, was one of the main reasons the PS1 became popular. Just think if it had been a Saturn exclusive...
I know for a fact that Capcom always planned to have a Saturn version (just like the original game) of RE2, ever since the original version that had Elza Walker instead of Claire. They gave up on doing it, so decided to do an original RE game for Dreamcast, which resulted in Code: Veronica

[Andy Mancini]

As you would guess by my avatar, I was very dissapointed when Goemon was cancelled.
Are you sure that they are the same things? I thought that the Goemon in question belonged to Konami, not Working Designs.

[Botman]

Are you sure that they are the same things? I thought that the Goemon in question belonged to Konami, not Working Designs.While Konami does own the rights to the Goemon series, Working Designs was going to translate and publish the PS2 game in America.

[The Jinjo]

No 2D games? Any console would be lucky to get it's hands on a game like Viewtiful Joe.

[Bird Boy]

No 2D games? Any console would be lucky to get it's hands on a game like Viewtiful Joe.

Viewtiful Joe isn't...exactly just 2D. It's a mesh of 2D and 3D, so I doubt that Sony would NOT allow it on their console...

...and if they wouldn't...well, that's stupid.

No matter how many people can "confirm" that these are true...it still seems fishy to me...mainly because it's just an Anonymous source...

-BB

[blee337]

I am still po'd at Sony for rejecting my Capcom Generations sets (Ghosts and Goblins/1942 sets) and Salamander Deluxe Pack for PS1.

The above list seems abit suspect since Growlanser Generations still seems to be on track. Below is a post from Vic Ireland, boss at WD.

"Not the way it works. Any title can be rejected at any time for virtually any reason. Just because another in the series was approved doesn't mean anything, AND if you get the initial "concept approval", doesn't 100% guarantee that you'll get approval to release it at the end. There are no guarantees.

However, the "sky is falling" in the source post is overkill. 2D isn't being rejected out of hand. It's *much, much harder* to get it approved, but it can and does still happen.

And while I'm posting let me apologize to anyone reading this for not being able to be around here too much lately. Growlanser Generations is sucking me dry, and we have the Deluxe Pack Version items we're prepping to show the world. Yes, there is a deluxe pack version, and because we're not making them for all the units in the run, they'll be pricey, but I think those that want this type of thing will be pleasantly surprised...especially with the soundtrack CD. If you want to talk about that though, a new thread is probably in order. :)

Don't Believe the Hype
- Vic "

[krazymed]

I never quite understood SCEA's asinine rejection method. Exactly how come a game that was deemed alright for Japan (like Soul Hackers, Goemon or any Capcom Generation title besides the Street Fighter one) is rejected in the states. I heard they almost canned Mega Man 8 once, which resulted in Capcom threatening Sony to pull off RE2 as a PS title and develop it as a Saturn-exclusive.
That's pretty much the only way to change the rules. Have the game developers say, "there are two perfectly decent systems out there we can talk to..."

[Jundaunted]

That's pretty much the only way to change the rules. Have the game developers say, "there are two perfectly decent systems out there we can talk to..."That's pretty much what SNK is doing by porting their games to the Xbox. Although, I guess it's much easier to port any game from the outdated MVS hardware to any console than to recode a game from one current platform to another.

[guinaevere]

Your thoughts on this, as gamers who appreciate more about games than just the extent to which they let you cap prostitutes and steal cars? First of all, while the story may be lame, GTAVC not only has great game-play, from a technical standpoint, it's a very good game.

Sony was known for their very liberal policies for niche software and such. Interesting. The first thing I thought when the DC came out was, hurrah! Now the great oddities that the average PS player wouldn't buy, these games finally have a home.

Yet these methods by the SCEA don't seem fair. Perhaps not. But what corperations can you point to are in the business of being fair? If SCEA has decided to go with style over substance, that's their perogative. It would seem they've decided to shoot themselves in the foot, but if that's what they decide, then that's what they'll do.

Obviously, this is all a big If. If it's true. If they make no exceptions.

If a game plays great, what can'y they make it pretty AND great? What's so prestigious about playing games that look like crap? That arguement is tempting at first, but you have to look a little further into it. Not every game is designed to be flashy super lovely. One example: RTS is a great genre of game, but doesn't lend itself to making a beautiful screenshot. Not that the genre can't be improved. It has done so tremendously over the years, but still, there are some great games that wouldn't compete with your average, "I need fast action and big explosions" gamer.

It generally strikes me as elitist talk, especially because as was reference in the original post, those games don't tend to sell. They don't sell the big numbers. But that isn't everything. I find it interesting in a board where members would scratch & claw to have their favorite unknown anime slotted for primetime on a cable network to a relatively small audience, they also clamor about how games should only be produced if they sell 5 bajillion copies.

There are niche markets for many products. Movies, music, games, comics, novels, et cetera. Be greatful that they're there. They provide new ideas. They help keep the average product from becoming stale.