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View Full Version : Is the war on terror essentially a clash between cultures?


I.R Joey
02-23-2004, 05:02 PM
Do you think it's possible that the reason we're fighting this war is simply because of cultural diffrences? Why is it that these terrorist groups tend to villify the west as this huge monster that needs to be fought in a Jihad? Is it because they feel that the West (particularly America) is encroaching in on their way of life and through cultural influence is changing fundamental aspects of their society? For instance we're going into the Middle East and disposing of dictators who we think are tyrants, not only that but we're giving them our form of goverment (a kind of republic) to fill the void. Has anyone stopped to think about the fact that this area of the world has never had this form of goverment? That they've pretty much always had something similar to totalitarian goverment?

There's also the aspect of Israel and American suppourt for it (I don't use the generic term "Western" here cuz many countries in Europe don't suppourt Israel like America has and does.)

Then we have the religious aspect which is always explosive. The West has been predominately ruled by Christianity for the last 2000 years, but in the Middle east and some parts of Africa, Islam has been the prefered religon since 1500 years ago (during and after Mohammed's death.) The Crusades, the wars of the Byzantine empire, the fights in southern spain, all have been marks of when forms of Christianity and Islam have met. Even doctrinally there are diffrences. For instance Muslims don't believe in the deity of Jesus (they believe he was just a good prophet,) and of course Christians don't.

Then you have people from my particular religious persuasion (IE conservative Evangelicals) who after 9-11 immediatly pronounced that Islam was an inheriantly violent religion. While I didn't think that when I read the Qu'ran, I know some people who do hold that belief. Even more terrifying is that some people took the approach of vigilantism and because of ignorance attacked any Arab they could find, and even Seik's who are actually from India. Many of these people had likely never studied Muslim stuff, and really many Americans prior to 9-11 couldn't have told you a thing about the Muslim faith.

Then we also have problems when we look at the treatment of women in these countries and are aghast at the way they are often required to wear long garments and stuff. Meanwhile many in the Islamic world look at how women behave in our society and are aghast at how loose things are. Toss in issues like the debate over polygamy and you got an even more wood in the fire.

Anyway this has been running through my head and I'm anxious to see what other people think about it. If anyone of you is from that area of the world and practices Islam you're input is welcome and encouraged in this thread. Quite frankly if more people were willing to talk about these things before picking up arms we'd be in alot less trouble as a species.

creeper
02-23-2004, 05:12 PM
It's all history repeating itself. We came from over seas saw the Native Americans and said.....Those thar injuns must be hethans cause they don't warship our God, lets take thar land and make them(all said in classic hillbilly redneck style).

It's basically the same thing. We have better weapons so obviously they don't have much choice. Darwin would be proud.

Delthayre
02-23-2004, 06:25 PM
In medieval times, Christianity with stringently absolute and eager to use violence in the name of that absolutism. Eventually the wars of religion forced Christianity to become more flexible and open, otherwise it would self-destruct.

Islam has yet to go through this.

Psycho Fox
02-23-2004, 07:24 PM
Don't forget that this area was pawns during the cold war. In hind sight, letting them going communist (uhh the fake kind) would have been better then enpowering the radical tradionalist. At least as communist the peoples goal is a workers paradise so you could use logic on them either by going into how they are not "REALLY" communist (since the communist rebllions don't really ever follow the teaching of Marx and Engles close enough) or that dispite the problem with the capitalist world it gives workers more freedom then the fake communism.

The problem with the current radical tradionalist is they offering a paradise in the afterlife which is a bit harder to use logic on.

Squall
02-23-2004, 10:19 PM
At least as communist the peoples goal is a workers paradise...
How do you define a 'worker's paradise'? Wouldn't that be a place where you'd never have to work at all, ever?

:confused:

SlyBoy
02-23-2004, 10:25 PM
Don't forget that this area was pawns during the cold war. In hind sight, letting them going communist (uhh the fake kind) would have been better then enpowering the radical tradionalist. At least as communist the peoples goal is a workers paradise so you could use logic on them either by going into how they are not "REALLY" communist (since the communist rebllions don't really ever follow the teaching of Marx and Engles close enough) or that dispite the problem with the capitalist world it gives workers more freedom then the fake communism.

The problem with the current radical tradionalist is they offering a paradise in the afterlife which is a bit harder to use logic on.
Um, you're off-topic again.

Squall
02-23-2004, 10:35 PM
Um, you're off-topic again.
Give him an inch, and he'll convert it and take it a whole kilometer... :D

Psycho Fox
02-23-2004, 11:26 PM
How do you define a 'worker's paradise'? Wouldn't that be a place where you'd never have to work at all, ever?

:confused:I don't really want to get off topic but if you never have to work, are you a worker?

Without getting to far off topic the idea of worker's paradise is mostly

a) People have the RIGHT to work meaing zero unemployment

b)Work doesn't get in the way of actully living (You work so you and everyone else can have a life not live to work)this means there is ample amount of free time (time to do other things) that in "theory" works out due to zero unemployment.

Anyway the point since all this deals with THIS reality instead of something that is hard to define (the after life) is far more easier to deal with even people that have BAD communism ideology.

Lucky Bob
02-23-2004, 11:41 PM
I don't really want to get off topic but if you never have to work, are you a worker?

Without getting to far off topic the idea of worker's paradise is mostly

a) People have the RIGHT to work meaing zero unemployment

b)Work doesn't get in the way of actully living (You work so you and everyone else can have a life not live to work)this means there is ample amount of free time (time to do other things) that in "theory" works out due to zero unemployment.

Anyway the point since all this deals with THIS reality instead of something that is hard to define (the after life) is far more easier to deal with even people that have BAD communism ideology.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks.gif

Nightflower
02-24-2004, 11:45 AM
Lucky Bob, none of that.

Psycho Fox, please stay on topic.

Liger Zero
02-25-2004, 05:49 AM
I doubt it has so much to do with the planting of puppet governments and more towards our unyielding support for Israel. If that aspect were removed, "the terrorists" would likely view us as competition more than as enemies. Same thing, really, in their line of work -- we're just a lot more polite up front.

Bear in mind that America isn't the only country that supports Israel. Most of the old British nations, including Great Britain itself, support Israel. Great Britain practically has to, in order to justify their creation of the Israeli state in the first place.

The religious aspect is like putting matter up against antimatter. You can only get the two sides to talk if you impose some sort of separation -- it works in America because America is principally a secular nation. Many of the so-called "Christian laws" in this nation are rooted out of common sense rather than religious dictation.

I'm inclined to believe that Islam, like all other religions, isn't the root cause of violence, but more of a motivating factor. The violence often stems from an unyielding desire for something, whether it's natural resources (modern "Christian crusade" of America vs Iraq), religious equality (Protestants vs Catholics in Ireland), or territorial dispute (Israel vs Palestine). When a cheap justification is necessary, religion is turned to, because religion itself is nothing but a set of cheap justifications for otherwise doing something with questionable morality.