Super soldier Serum... it's not just for Fictional Characters anymore.

[zmanjz]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4282866/

Gene injections in rats can double muscle strength and speed, researchers have found, raising concerns that the virtually undetectable technology could be used illegally to build super athletes.

A University of Pennsylvania researcher seeking ways to treat illness said that studies in rats show that muscle mass, strength and endurance can be increased by injections of a gene-manipulated virus that goes to muscle tissue and causes a rapid growth of cells...

...“If a normal person would inject this, their muscles would get stronger without them doing anything,” said Sweeney. “If they are athletes in training, the rat study indicates that their training would be much more effective, injury would be overcome more easily and the effect of the training would last a much longer time.”
The effect appeared to last throughout the life of the rats.

He said the technique was designed so that the IGF1 gene stays in the target muscle and does not move into the bloodstream where it could cause damage to other organs.
The research was published in the March issue of the Journal of Applied Physiology...
egad...

What does this mean for mankind?

Is this simply Humans using technology once again to adapt our species?

or is this wrong?

Will Super strength Humans defeat the Terminators in a Dark future war?

or will this just make bending robots obsolete?

[Lucky Bob]

I think we need to be careful about things like this. I don't mind stronger muscles in people, but I'm concerned about side effects. Who knows what kind of long-term impact this could have on the body?

That said, I think the technology itself could be ultimately beneficial. Imagine applications for those undergoing physical therapy for injuries, or who have harmful muscle degeneration...

I'm not really concerned about sports. Physical prowress in sport is just one part of the equation.

[Parallax]

I will become Captain America and fight the Commies.

Anyway, kinda sounds like super steroids, but faster, right?

[zmanjz]

I will become Captain America and fight the Commies.

Anyway, kinda sounds like super steroids, but faster, right?No, this is nothing like steroids.

Rather than manipulate hormones, this is a recombinant DNA introduction system that simply causes muscles to increase their generation/regeneration rate on their own.

Aditionally, this is a one time treatment. Introduction of the hybrid genes to the muscle only needs to be done once for the effect to be permenant.

Finally, as this has no (Direct) effect on hormones, the side effects associated with Steroids would not exist.


The added improvements some from the increase in strength, stamina AND most amazing, Healing/regeneration.

If Human testing goes well, will an "Upgrade" like this become mandatory for all new US Soldiers? (a 30% improvement with no effort, and a 100% improvement with training is VERY tempting. Effectively doubling the load a soldier could carry AND increasing their survivability.)

[Eddie G.]

The presumption that American super soilders is not a good thing, honestly I don't want the U.S. to become anymore of a super power than it really is. I would rather see this formula be developed for police officers and fire fighters instead for military forces. It's kind of scary though, this basically is what made Steve Rogers Captain America.

[zmanjz]

The presumption that American super soilders is not a good thing, honestly I don't want the U.S. to become anymore of a super power than it really is. I would rather see this formula be developed for police officers and fire fighters instead for military forces. It's kind of scary though, this basically is what made Steve Rogers Captain America.Of course Military applications would not be the only use for this, BUT Soldiers are the only large non-prisoner population which the government can force to take a chemical.

I mean, Firefighters that are able to carry more gear/people

Police officers able to more readily survive impacts/wounds

People with Muscular wasting diseases that have their problems halted or even reversed....

there are so many posibilities.

But Really, the first to see this in great numbers would probably be the military, assuming they are able to make it safe for humans.

[Jaguar]

Reminds me of a Futurama quote:
Professor: "Uh, wha? Oh, yeah, they say madness runs in our family. Some even call me mad. And why? Because I dared to dream of my own race of atomic monsters, atomic supermen with octagonal shaped bodies that suck blood...."

[jeffrey 228]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4282866/


egad...

What does this mean for mankind?

Is this simply Humans using technology once again to adapt our species?

or is this wrong?

Will Super strength Humans defeat the Terminators in a Dark future war?

or will this just make bending robots obsolete?
Well this was explained on King5 News last night, and let's say I had another thought that this would happen, there would be chances that this stuff, can make people strong, yet I am unsure if it is still safe, but I can tell you one thing, this about makes another list of things that just got invented for the future.

[SilverKnight]

I dunno. It has potential to do a lot of good, but we have to remember that good and bad is a packaged deal. It's Murphy's Law--something that can go wrong, will go wrong. Since there seem to be no 'side effects', that leaves only one major problem to go wrong--what if it gets into the wrong hands? What if a person injected flips out and goes nuts, or decides that they want to do something that the US government doesn't take very kindly to? You just made your enemy twice as dangerous as he was before this injection, and we have enough trouble with our enemies as it is.

I'm not a stickler for these kinds of things, but things like messing with a person's DNA to make them stronger and faster gives me the creeps. How many sci-fi stories started with the idea of 'a great scientific breakthrough that went horribly wrong'?

Bah. Nevermind me.

Edit: I'm also curious--this thing is a one-shot deal, right? Well, what if someone gets more than one injection at a time? Or gets more than one injection over a lifetime? Will it in double their strength again? Will the body reject it? Hm. Makes me wonder...

[Tienshin]

I can see the usefulness of something like this in medical applications, powering up a weak heart or quickly repairing atrophied muscles for example. So in that regard it would appear to be a good thing. However, it's all but inevitable that someone would find a way to get this into athletes hands (and you though Barry Bonds head was large now) and that would be a shame.

As for a military application, I guess a strength increasing serum could be used as an effective force multiplier. Currently proposed “soldier of the future” uniforms are being proposed that increase a soldiers individual effectiveness via technology (better weapons, all weather climate controlled suit, integrated infrared/themography capabilities, etc) so increasing a soldiers physical attributes is almost a logical tie in to that idea.

Seems like a scary idea to me though, especially when considering that the serum is a gene manipulated virus. We can’t cure the common cold, so should we really spend time juicing up other viruses?

[Morpheus]

This is very bad. I fear for humankind in the future. Things may get out of hand, and the human population turns into supermen. Scary.

[JustJack]

Why do Athlete's have to use it? Screw the Athlete's!! Bring on CAPTAIN AMERICA!!!


Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!!

sorry. I understand that was pointless, but that's all I have to say. I just want Captain America. That's all...

[RZetlin]

What does this mean for mankind?

A better question is what does it mean for each country. I'm sure the U.S.
military is looking into this techology in order to gain the edge against other countries and terrorist.


Is this simply Humans using technology once again to adapt our species?

This technology will not be used for all of mankind, but the for Elite. (Eg. Athletes & soliders)

is this wrong?

In the eyes of greed and completion is it never wrong.

Will Super strength Humans defeat the Terminators in a Dark future war?

I thought we will get the Matrix in the future.

or will this just make bending robots obsolete?

There's always a place for Bender! ;)

[Mynd Hed]

My main concern would be how this would affect the behavior of a human subject. I mean, it's tough to think of anything that one rat would do that another rat wouldn't, you don't really have to worry about altering the moral behavior of a rat. But if this treatment can cause personality changes, it might not show up until and unless it was used on a human (or at least a primate or dog or something). And since the treatment is apparently permanent, human testing is a very thorny moral issue.

Captain America is all well and good, but the Hulk? You wouldn't like HIM when he's angry. (-:

Of course, what would happen if it fell into the wrong hands is concerning as well, but personally I'm much more concerned with nuclear technology, and that's been around for decades.

[Delthayre]

I'm not terribly worried about rampant, unregulated abuse of the gene therapy. The extensive preparation and equipment necessary to the process should prevent this from being widespread.

Barring of course the creation of unscrupulous black-market gene-therapy labs, which I suspect are a serious possibility.

[Lucky Bob]

Is this simply Humans using technology once again to adapt our species?

This technology will not be used for all of mankind, but the for Elite. (Eg. Athletes & soliders)

is this wrong?

In the eyes of greed and completion is it never wrong.

I'd hate to think I'd have to go through life with such a gloomy view. :rolleyes:

[zmanjz]

Edit: I'm also curious--this thing is a one-shot deal, right? Well, what if someone gets more than one injection at a time? Or gets more than one injection over a lifetime? Will it in double their strength again? Will the body reject it? Hm. Makes me wonder...Ah, a good question.

Due to the nature of Genetic manipulation, the one shot will only work once, Multiple shots may increase the speed with which the strength development occours, but once the maximum effect of the shot has been achieved, another shot will have 0% effect.


AND there is something to be said for the dangers inherent in the delivery system. You can only cause genetic change through the use of a "designer virus". (That is what targets and inserts the New DNA into the appropriate cells.)


Welcome to the future. ;)

[The Falcon]

as long as it tastes like strawberries i'll take a dose or two

i consider this whole thing to be dangerous. whatever happened to the old fashioned way of getting stronger by lifting weights and proper diet. no. people want to be fit and strong and they want to be fit and strong now! i was listening to a radio program the other day about all these "homerun kings" in baseball today and the guy on the radio said "the babe didn't have to resort to taking steroids in his day because they didn't have anything like that." how true, how very true. i consider babe ruth more of a hero than mark mcguire or barry bonds. mainly because he's a big fat guy who can still intimidate other players. good guy that babe [/rant]

Hero

[JDuncan]

It's about damn time. Ever since I saw Gattaca I knew that our, that is normal humans', pathetic existence would come to an end, to be replaced by a gloriously superior genetically engineered race of super humans and it's great to know that we continue to make advances in that direction. All I can say is that my kid will have x-ray vision and super speed, suckers.

Edit: I forgot to add that my super-spawn will also have chainsaw hands.

[Roger Smith]

hmmm...
do you know in what webpage they sell silence weapons and some camuflage lets do some stealing...

Well i seriously think this is good and kind of Bad
Good Side:IF YOU SUCK AT SPORTS YOU SUCK AT ALL THAT IS FOR SPORTS GOOD FOR YOU THE NEW NEEDLE IS!
Bad Side:HELLO MR TERRORIST WILL YOU LIKE THE NEEDLE THAT MAKES YOU INTO CAPTAIN AMAERICA SO YOUR TERRORISTS SOLDIERS WOULD TURN INTO CAPTAIN AMERICAN AND CAN ONLY BE KILL BY NAPALM?

[Ben]

Kidding aside, this could have be really great for people with degenerative muscle diseases, especially genetic ones. It's very exciting to hear that they've been able to make such alterations in an adult organism, isolated to the muscles. Mynd, if they really have managed to make it take effect only on muscle cells, we shouldn't have any huge behavioral problems to worry about, aside from the psychological effects of being in a wheelchair one minute and incredibly buff the next. :D

We certainly live in interesting times.

[SSJPabs]

This is my problem with scientists. They're so busy thinking new things they don't stop to realize that the things they invent may very well kill us all. Society can't adapt in time to keep up with all the new technology and so society becomes increasingly fragmented.

Honestly, doesn't the story go: "And so, nature got her revenge. The gene therapy virus mutated in a way no one could have expected, we few are all who survived."

Sad thing is, I probably won't be the one saying it :sad: I'd much rather they poured resources into making power suits or something.

[Ben]

This is my problem with scientists. They're so busy thinking new things they don't stop to realize that the things they invent may very well kill us all. Society can't adapt in time to keep up with all the new technology and so society becomes increasingly fragmented.


Seriously. Groups were so much more cohesive when we were hunter-gatherers. Damn those radical farmers and their agriculture!

The fact is we don't need viruses. Machetes could very well kill us all. Look at Rwanda.

The problem with saying "the virus is going to mutate and kill everyone!" is that lab-developed viruses don't have any way of transmitting themselves from person to person. Even the worst-case biological terrorism scenarios would only affect a small area and then only for a very limited time before dispersion.

I happen to agree with you. When you start horizontally transmitting memes from peer to peer rather than vertically from one generation to the next you start getting far ahead of the point where genes can track or limit memetic changes. Horizontal transmission of memes may kill us all. But if it does, it'll be the natural end of our evolution. The fact is driving cars and making Flintstones toys out of plastic and creating retroviruses is all a part of our nature, and therefore they're a part of nature as a whole. And if we all die, that'll be a part of nature too. You can blame the scientists if you want but people with the will to do that sort of thing will always be around as long as humankind is.

[Mynd Hed]

Mynd, if they really have managed to make it take effect only on muscle cells, we shouldn't have any huge behavioral problems to worry about, aside from the psychological effects of being in a wheelchair one minute and incredibly buff the next. :D
One hopes, but I'm skeptical about our ability to affect only muscle cells and absolutely nothing else-- if nothing else, wouldn't hormonal balance have to change to accomodate these new big bad muscles? The personality is a fragile thing dependant on a very delicate chemical mix in the brain and body, and so I'm naturally wary of anything that might potentially change that balance (and yes, that includes anti-depressants and various other happy pills in use today).

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, just that there are potential dangers and we should move as slowly and safely as possible.

[SSJPabs]

But if it does, it'll be the natural end of our evolution. The fact is driving cars and making Flintstones toys out of plastic and creating retroviruses is all a part of our nature, and therefore they're a part of nature as a whole. And if we all die, that'll be a part of nature too. You can blame the scientists if you want but people with the will to do that sort of thing will always be around as long as humankind is.I do blame scientists for not having foresight but of course they're not the ones to blame for wars etc. And I don't know about you, but there's no way I'm going to accept for the human race to die out even though it is natural. We have way too much potential. It's one of the reasons I support for out-system colonies so we don't stack all our eggs in one cosmic basket. Yes I'm argueing against going against the natural order in one instance, and for allowing nature to take its course in another. I have made a personal decision that one is more valid than the other, that's all. Is it hypcritical? I don't know, but if it is, at least I'm being honest about it.

[wrenchien]

egad...

What does this mean for mankind?

Is this simply Humans using technology once again to adapt our species?

or is this wrong?

Will Super strength Humans defeat the Terminators in a Dark future war?

or will this just make bending robots obsolete?

uhhhhhhhhhhh......

no?

[Romanesque]

One hopes, but I'm skeptical about our ability to affect only muscle cells and absolutely nothing else.

Barring outright oversights and stupid mistakes (which are both valid concerns), there's not much to be skeptical about. Targeting specific cells with a virus is a fairly well understood concept. Viruses do this all the time, by their very nature.


If nothing else, wouldn't hormonal balance have to change to accomodate these new big bad muscles? The personality is a fragile thing dependant on a very delicate chemical mix in the brain and body, and so I'm naturally wary of anything that might potentially change that balance.

Following that "if nothing else" reasoning -- potential side effects of increased muscle mass alone -- wouldn't the result then be no different than obtaining the same change via traditional means? In which case... what's the problem?

Anyway, I certainly won't be messing with my genes until the technology's demonstrably mature... but that may not take long... and it's an advancement we're simply going to have to learn to deal with. Major changes are ahead of us all, and this is just a tiny step.

My biggest fear is not what technology will bring, not even what those with evil intent will do with it, but what the ignorant and uninformed will do with it... for they are many. Alas, it's easier than ever to start falling behind.

--Romey